There seems to be a debate going on in Christendom and I don’t mean Russell Moore’s scathing letter to SBC president Greear. I’m talking about The Chosen. The #1 crowdfunded television program ever. Written by Dallas Jenkins, scion of Left Behind’s Jerry Jenkins, wowed audiences, secular, and Christian in its first season. It was made all the more accessible when the Chosen app offered all eight episodes for a voluntary “pay it forward” model. The last big Jesus media splash was Bruce Marciano’s brilliant performance in the word-for-word NIV narration of The Gospel of Matthew. There was a ripple or two with a 2003 Word-for-Word Gospel of John. It’s tough playing Jesus or his disciples. As Movieguide said summing up the Gospel of John’s bad reviews (37% on Rotten Tomatoes)
The Gospel of John takes a reverent approach to its story without ever bringing it to life, proving that cribbing from the Good Book isn’t enough to guarantee a good movie.
Amen. The Chosen has had unprecedented success and now that Jenkins has a fully funded season two the celebrity Christian train is pulling into the station. God help us all. Some people have noticed a bit more artistic license from the writers this season. Jesus seems to find his hipness and Jenkins feels more confidence in telling a story about Jesus that cribs from the Gospels and tries to capture the spirit of following Christ but not sticking to the letter of the ancient text.
From the beginning, Jenkins has made clear that he thinks the Chosen is based on the Bible but it’s not cut from the same cloth as previous Gospel films. It’s not a word for word retelling like The Gospel of Matthew. It is a multi-season story about Jesus’ disciples, fit for the Netflix generation. Jenkins makes clear that the writers condense timelines and take poetic license. Further in this video he says that The Chosen is no substitute for Scripture, which I appreciate.
Any Christian creative project that gets the kind of national attention the Chosen has is going to draw scrutiny. Mormons work on the show? Yep. VidAngel the distributor, is owned by Mormons. Season two is shot on an LDS set. Jenkins recently said on a Mormon interview “Our disagreements are about what Jesus did after he came. We worship the same Jesus.” Dallas is wrong that our differences with Mormons are only about what Jesus did after he was crucified. Dallas is wrong that Mormons and Christians worship the same Jesus. In official Mormon teaching Jesus, and in fact all of us, were born on another planet, and came to earth to acquire a physical body and earn our godhood as all gods before us. I’m concerned about this. I don’t know if he’s just motivated by his job situation to reason this way or if he’s just unaware of the official LDS doctrines but it’s a concern.
It’s also not a reason for me to stop watching the show or using it. That would definitely change if Jonathan Roumie pops over to speak with the American Indians at the end of Season two or the angel Moroni shows up. As it is, I personally (MCOI has not taken a position on the Chosen yet) will judge the show on its own merits as Jenkins asks us to do. That’s fair.
Jonathan Roumie is a devout Catholic who prays the Rosary. Atheists work on the show as well. One of the advisors to the writers is spouting bad theology on Sid Roth’s show. Some of the actors haven’t been to church since Easter? These are all valid concerns. But one concern I keep hearing is that we shouldn’t watch the Chosen because Jesus and the disciples speak and talk way too modern, and the writers add to the story. The depiction of Matthew as on the spectrum from Aspergers to Autism, as some have suggested, is artistic license.
It is historically accurate that as a tax collector Matthew was regarded as a traitor. Creating a storyline which includes Matthew hiring a man to sneak him into the market in an attempt to avoid being accosted for being a traitor is something which could possibly occur. In the episode the man he hires refuses to take him any further into the market than its outer edges. The man calls Matthew a “public anus” a derogatory joke at the expense of the Latin publicanus, for Roman public official.
And you know what? It works. I know I’m not watching the Gospels but I’m watching the world of the Gospels brought to life. Who among us hasn’t tried to explain to Sunday School attenders how radical Jesus was to call a Roman collaborator like Matthew to be His disciple? Who among us, has felt like our students really get it? I don’t know if publicanus’ like Matthew had to sit behind a locked window with a Roman guard. If there is no historical precedent for that, I don’t really care. It gets the point across.
I still get Goosebumps when Roumie says, “Get used to Different.” Jesus didn’t say that. It’s colloquial. It’s modern. and it’s right. That scene conveys a very Biblical point. Jesus’ ministry was radical because of the kind of people he called. That comes through regardless of whether there was a Gaius (Kirk Woller) breathing down his neck. So, quibble about anachronism if you like. (Just be sure to start your nit-picking in the traditional way, by prefacing your corrections with the words “Um Actually . . .” )
Some of the criticism of the show has the worry that people will take the show itself as being the Gospel. Considering that the average Christian sitting in their theater seat in the warehouse-turned-worship service can’t explain Jesus’ divinity without uttering heresies that were condemned in the Council at Nicea, it’s valid. It’s not a reason to condemn the Chosen though. It’s a reason to teach the Bible. I used the Chosen series last year as the opener for a Bible study. We would read the Bible passage first. Noting what is not said and what is emphasized and then we would watch the scene and discuss the Bible passage. I was (and still am) careful to point out what in the scene is poetic license and what is true, in my theological opinion.
I could be wrong but I think some of the concern about the Chosen being biblically accurate is that we have the sneaky suspicion that the average 20-30 something would rather get their Bible understanding from a well-funded tv production than do the challenging work of trying to understand the Bible. But it is not Dallas Jenkins job to make Bible study fun. He’s a creative. His job is to be creative within the bounds of sound theology and his allegiance to Jesus Christ.
Dallas Jenkins is becoming a celebrity Christian whether he wants to or not. This is a trial worthy of us bathing him in prayer. God save us from Christian celebrity status. It has been the downfall of so many. Ravi Zacharias being just the most recent. Pray that Dallas is given all the spiritual strength to stand up to that sort of scrutiny and that he never, ever, starts believing his own press.
And pray he and his team can find a way to speak truth in love. I hope he comes to realize that according to Mormon doctrine, Jesus is the brother of the Satan. The human body of Jesus was the result of the union between the immortal Father and Mary “in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” as the late Bruce R. McConkie, member of the Council of the Twelve Apostles puts it,1Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Bookcraft, 1966, p 547 This is NOT the Jesus of the Gospels.
So, in sum: Take the show on its own merits. Teach the Bible. Don’t substitute it. Be concerned and pray, especially for Jenkins and his family.Ω
© 2021, Midwest Christian Outreach, Inc All rights reserved. Excerpts and links may be used if full and clear credit is given with specific direction to the original content.
|↑1||Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Bookcraft, 1966, p 547|
I wish he would issue a full disclaimer about putting so many words in our Lord’s mouth, and to get the real deal, please read the Bible . . .
Well said. A disclaimer would help so fans do not think the Chosen is 100 percent accuracy.
It literally… is there at the beginning of Season 1, Episode 1.
The Deity of Jesus.
Which is stronger: His allegiance to Christ or his Mormon friends?
He said he’d sink or swim on his statement that we worship the same Jesus.
We need to pray for him!!!
All the anti-mormon hate really has me pondering how you guys really feel. So here’s a question.
It is unfortunate that you consider examining the claims of a group, in this case, Mormons, but it could be Scientology, atheism, agnosticism, Satanism, or even Hinduism, in order to determine if their claims are true or not with “hate.” I regularly engage with folks in many of these groups, not because I hate them but because I care about them and believe they are deceived. If indeed an atheist is believing something false and, as a result, will spend an eternity separated from God in torment, I am acting out of care and concern for him to address the issues. If I genuinely hated him or her, I would keep silent or even encourage him or in his false belief to insure his eternal misery.
All the anti-mormon hate really has me pondering how you guys really feel.
Why is it “anti-Mormon” hate to expose Mormon teachings as false and dangerous to the REAL church? As to which is the worst of your list–the Mormon. Others aren’t pretending to be Christians with teachings that confuse people and distort the real Christian faith.
Mormons worst than Satanists, lol. I guess I should have added terrorists to the list to at least have one group of people you’d dislike more than Mormons.
No one mentioned anything about disliking Mormons. The point was LDS Doctrines and theology, not the people. Just keep playing the victim instead of actually addressing the issue of false teachings.
I have noticed in the past when someone only has a victim card, that is the one continually used. It is unfortunate.
Go ahead and check the thread to see if you statement holds water.
It’s interesting for you to separate the theology from the person, but when you reference a Mormon, it combines both.
As far as playing the victim, I’m sorry if it comes off that way, because your view of Mormons doesn’t really matter, victim or not. I was simply asking how Mormons are viewed against what traditional Christians would consider bad people. Satan loving, God hating, or just non-believers in general, and then Mormons.
Now, I know you have issue with teachings of modern prophets and apostles, and it’s unfortunate that we don’t have the ability to completely restrict what we consider to be the word of God. We don’t have the luxury of just sticking to a particular version of the new testament only, and watering down the fulness of the gospel to, you’re saved by grace, all you need to do is know Christ and you’re saved, nothing else matters.
This extends further to hundreds of Christian sects that claim to have the truth and that there are no saving ordinances. Simply believe as you believe, and I’m saved. It’s as easy as that.
It doesn’t matter what you do, or how you love, you’re saved by grace as long as you believe.
A person may hold to true or false beliefs or some mix but that doesn’t make the person more or less bad than anyone else. Their character and actions give us insight into that question. Someone can be truly deceived and act with the best of intentions but harm someone as a result of that deception. Most Satanists do not believe in a person being a fallen angel we know as Satan. They are humanists that do not believe God exists and, therefore no objective morality. The goal in life is to grab all of the pleasure they are capable of before they breathe their last. Many are kind and do not want to hurt anyone and, in turn, desire to be treated well themselves. These motivations come from their perceived best self-interests. However, what they believe is false, and if I care about them, and I do, I want to challenge their ideas and test their worldview. For me and all of the Christians I know and work with believe the same is true of Wiccans, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hindus, and, yes, even Mormons. Disagreeing with what you believe is not the same as hating you.
Actually, I don’t have an issue with modern-day apostles and prophets; the word of God has a problem with that. God gives a test for judging those who claim to be prophets. Any who claims to be a prophet is one, but they are either a true prophet or a false prophet. We find them outlined in Deuteronomy 13 and 18. They may give true prophecies but lead the people to believe in false gods. They are false prophets. Or, if they give one prophecy that is false, they are a false prophet. In the Old Testament, false prophets were to be stoned to death. It is a capital crime against god to be a false prophet. In Matthew 7:15 -23, Jesus warned His followers to “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” Jesus was saying they would look like true believers but were not. His followers were Jewish, and most had the Old Testament memorized. They would have immediately gone to the definitions God had given. When Jesus said they would be known by their fruits, the fruits were their prophecies and teachings about God. The followers were to give the prophets a “T” or an “F.” In the end of the passage, the false prophets appealed to having given prophecies in His name and performing miracles in His name, but He told them to depart; He never knew them. They were false prophets.
This is not only true for the LDS church; we address this with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (JWs) who have made many claims to be God’s only the true prophet and made many false prophecies as well as teaching a false view of God. This is true about the New Apostolic Reformation Movement operating within the church today, and we publicly expose them as well. (You might be interested in “Kingdom of Counterfeiters and Hucksters” – Doug Geivett & Holly Pivec” )
There are a number of faithful translations of the Bible, but the common denominator with each new version is the go back to the original language and translate into a more updated language and have more and better manuscripts available to with which to work. However, they do no add “new revelation” that was written after the passing of the Apostles, that had been appointed to sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
The saving gospel is simple to understand. In the last words of John’s gospel, he says simply and eloquently:
In Romans 10:9-13 Paul gives the saving gospel that if we confess that Jesus is Lord (and in that context, He was saying YHWH) and believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-5 he again gives the saving gospel, belief in the death, burial, and bodily resurrection of Jesus, who Paul has repeatedly been on record saying Jesus is the One true God and all others are false Gods. So, yes, we cannot add anything to our salvation; we did nothing to deserve it and can do nothing to keep it. It is all in God’s hands.
Do works into play somewhere? Sure. Works are the fruit of salvation. Perhaps our article “Bad Heir Day” will be helpful.
It saves we’re saved by grace, but you say works fit in there somewhere. How do works factor into it, where do they factor in, if we’re saved by grace?
What works are you talking about specifically?
We wrote on this question at length in Bad Heir Day. Click the link and read it or don’t. I find no particular reason for me to rewrite it all in here again.
Very interesting read. I’ve never understood heaven and grace to be believed as it was written. However, there are a few things that aren’t clear reading it.
From the article
“These are the sons and/or daughters whose Christian “works” don’t amount to a hill of beans. Biblically speaking, they built on their “salvation foundation” with trash: wood, hay and stubble, which will go up in smoke, yet they themselves will be saved (I Cor. 3:8-15). Each Christian will receive his own reward according to his own labor.”
So if you’re saved, you aren’t promised the same reward as someone who was more faithful and did more to spread His gospel.
What rewards are you talking about? What’s the difference between 2 people that go to heaven, one faithful, one saved merely by grace. Does the black hat (as mentioned) get relegated to limited freedoms, duties? The faithful has more responsibilities?
What are the different rewards people get in heaven as you understand it, because clearly a faithful servant, livin his life as good as he can, is not the same as someone who believes but doesn’t put forth good works and squanders his talents.
No, salvation and rewards are different, and the thing that many misses is if we pursue rewards, we miss out. Our motive turns them into wood, hay, and straw. Our focus is on serving God; rewards are given in response to our serving Him. There are crowns and rewards, and although rewards are mentioned, what they are is not specified in most cases. There is the victor’s crown (1 Corinthians 9:25-27) which has to do with self-control and discipline. The crown of rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:19). The crown of righteousness (2 Timothy 4:8). The Crown of Life (James 1:12; Revelation 2:10). This is a martyr’s crown. Someone who remained faithful and steadfast in the midst of persecution and, in some cases, end in dying as a martyr. The Crown of Glory (1 Peter 5:4) This one is more for shepherds, pastors/elders who diligently and selflessly served, “not under compulsion” or for personal financial wealth building.
There are rewards for conducting ourselves well (Psalm 62:12; Jeremiah 17:32; Matthew 16:27; Revelation 22:12), being kind to the poor (Proverbs 19:17; Proverbs 25:22 ), doing acts of righteousness for the praise of God rather than men (Matthew 6:1) and many more. The rewards are not described but promised to those who serve God and seek His praise. A weak analogy might be joining the scouts. You would do nothing to become a scout except pledge the oath. No one is guaranteed any merit badges, but those who deserve them receive them. Biblically, we are born again and have peace with God by belief in and acknowledging the true Jesus Christ as the one true God, His death, burial, and resurrection, and calling on His name. No rewards are promised but are given to those who faithfully serve for His praise and not the praise of man.
Those who are saved but have little or no rewards are not “relegated to limited freedoms, duties,” nor are those who have great rewards given “more responsibilities.” Why? All was done to glorify God, and being in His presence is its own reward.
We have done nothing to merit salvation, and if rewards become our purpose, we miss the true purpose, which is living and serving Him. The difference between biblical Christianity and all other religions and pseudo-Christian groups is summed up in the contrast of two words. In Christianity, it is “done.” God provided salvation and is the One Who does the sanctifying. For all other religions and pseudo-Christian groups, the word is “do.” Everyone is always on a treadmill of doing and never sure if they have done enough to earn or at least provide some sort of down payment in hopes it will be enough. The problem is we can never do enough. Our short article, “The Good, Good News,” might be helpful.
In Matthew 25, it tells us that Jesus said if we didn’t feed the hungry, visit the imprisoned, etc. that we are not welcomed into Heaven because we didn’t serve Him.
Thank you, Arlene. The passage you pointed to provides an excellent teaching moment. I appreciate that. To begin with, we should always keep something in mind when we are reading any text., “A text without a context is a pretext.” What that means is this:
A text – what we’re reading
Without a context – The who, what, when, where, and how questions.
Is a pretext – a false understanding
Knowing who wrote it (or said it), when did they said or wrote it, to whom was said or written, why was it said or written, and how would the intended reader or hearer have understood it helps us understand it in those terms. Once we understand it in context, we can ask if it applies to us and, if so, in what way.
In the Jewish worldview at the time Jesus was carrying out His ministry was looking for the thousand-year messianic kingdom. The Old Testament prophesied the coming Messiah, His death and Resurrection, a seven-year tribulation, the Messiah’s return and the inauguration of the Millennial kingdom and the fulfillment of the land promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob’s descendants. In the gospels, we find Jesus appointing the twelve apostles to sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel when the Lord returns to sit on His throne (Matthew 19:28). In Matthew 25:31-46 Jesus is describing what happens at the end of the tribulation and beginning of the Millennial Kingdom.
Several things should be noted. First, He is on His “glorious throne” (v:31). The tribulation is over, and the kingdom is beginning. That also means the twelve are there (Matthew 19:28). Second, we notice two groups are in view. The sheep are already righteous (v:37); they belong to the shepherd, and the goats were already “cursed” (v:41); they are not part of the sheepfold. The sheep are righteous, and their righteousness is not contingent on their works. How do we know that? That they were surprised demonstrates they were not working for their salvation. The Apologetics Study Bible explains it this way:
This is a question of rewards to those that were already His but were living selflessly. If salvation were or is dependent on our works, our works would have to exceed the Scribes and the Pharisees (Matthew 5:20), who wasn’t going to make it based on their works because they were not 100% righteous on their own. This is not new; when Paul wrote, “the just shall live by faith” in Galatians 3:11, he was quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures, Habakkuk 2:4. Good works have never justified us before God. It is only by God’s provision and our calling on Him in faith that we are made righteous. Again, “The Good, Good News” can be helpful here.
Thanks for your explanation. You are right-context is important.
I am glad if it is helpful Blessings
And yet, the good thief hung on the cross and asked Jesus to “remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered “you will be with me this day in paradise.” No third degree about what doctrines do you believe, what church, temple did you go to, nothing else required but to ask to be remembered.
I’m curious…did you, who oppose The Chosen’s production of a stated ‘fictionalized’ television show, have the same negative opinions of Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ? Were you opposed to the way they presented Jesus…the small nods to traditional stories held in Catholicism? Was the fact Jesus was portrayed by a Roman Catholic nullify the importance of the movie to you?
Do you hold the same standard for the Sight and Sound productions of the Bible? I doubt it.
These are all trivial complaints once one is overwhelmed by the wonderful portrayal of scenes like the abundance of fish caught by tossing out the nets at Jesus’ behest…Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well…speaking at the synagogue at Nazareth and nearly being thrown off the cliff! The important scenes are portrayed faithfully in word and spirit!
I agree. And, as far as I can tell, Jenkins has not changed anything that speaks to the divinity or humanity of Jesus, or why He was incarnated, or how we are to be saved, repentance, etc.
You guys are speaking quite logically, which isn’t exactly the focus here. The taint of Mormonism on the project is enough to completely overlook any beneficial quality you two have mentioned watching the show.
The show is obviously wonderful. Haters gonna hate.
Personally I never watch the passion because I don’t care to see Christ get brutalized like it was evidently portrayed. I’m sure people on this board took issue with it as well, but clearly good can come from people experiencing the film.
I indeed criticized “The Passion” for its unbiblical Papist nonsense. Here is my review: “Wednesday, January 31, 2018Movie Review: The Passion of the Christ”
Your question is a valid one regarding consistency. You might note that Glenn E. Chatfield and provided a link to his review. MCOI also reviewed the film in “Passion About the Passion.” It has serious theological problems which we address. In terms of the story being told, as the late G. Richard Fisher noted (and we quote) regarding the overall storyline and Emmerich’s material that was used:
Anytime a film or play is done based on the Bible or tangentially related to it, there is always a certain amount of artistic embellishments. A key difference between The Passion and The Chosen is the Passion, as Fisher notes, is probably 70% Gospels. The Chosen on the other hand, as Dallas Jenkins states numerous times, the storyline in The Chosen is 95% invented and 5% Bible. In other words, it is 95% fantasy about a Jewish rabbi that lived in the first century but bears relatively little resemblance to the Jesus of Scripture. The Jesus in the Chosen even needs guidance from Matthew in writing a sermon. That would at least imply that Jesus of the Chosen is somewhat challenged in his understanding of human nature and the best way to frame his message. That is very different from the Jesus of Scripture, Who said in John 7:16;17:
The Jesus of Scripture had no need to vet His sermon; God was the author and knew what was to be said.
Have you ever considered, that Jesus isn’t actually vetting his sermon, rather using it as an opportunity to establish rapor with Matthew and include him in the work?
It doesn’t have to be so literal. It’s borderline blasphemous to suggest Jesus didn’t know what he was talking about.
That was exactly how I took it. I would never presume God needs us for anything. But He does want to include us-that’s why He created us.
I took it that Jesus was asking Matthew’s help really to include him. God doesn’t need our help for anything. Yet He chooses to include us in procreation, stewardship of the earth, etc. He asks us to love Him with our whole being: all of our strength, all of our heart, all of our soul, and all of our mind. Matthew was (in the chosen) loving with his mind. That was his gift to bring.
WELL IF YOU FOLLOW THE ” SPIRIT BROTHER OF JUCIFER” YOU ARE RUNNING WITH THE DEVIL!!!
Mark, I’m going to use your train a logic a little further too see how you really feel.
Are catholics, jehovah witnesses, jews other nondenominational Christian sects also following the “spirit of Jucifer”? Or is it just Mormons?
I am an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I love watching the Chosen. It motivates me to be a better follower of Jesus Christ and to strive to emulate His qualities of compassion, and service,
It is interesting that you say that. Dallas Jenkins has been clear that 95% of the content of The Chosen is just made up. I am uncertain why you would want to be a better follower of and try to emulate a false Jesus?
When and where did he say he made up 95% of the show?
We talk about it in our article, “The Chosen Dilemma” and Dallas Jenkins pointing that our in his interview “A Candid Conversation with Dallas Jenkins, Director of The Chosen” with our friend, Melissa Dougherty. He has said this in other places as well.
The problem is w Mormon Doctrine…which Joe and Brigham gave you. They both rejected classic Christian theology…the person..and identity of Jesus Christ…the Morman Jesus cannot save you…and that is why Mormons strive to be perfect..the goal they cannot attain…the sad part of it…Mormons are perishing w King James bibles in their hands…and they cannot hold the Melkizidek Preisthood…Mormons is a cruel Christian counterfeit..
Please see the beginning of Season 1, Episode 1. And the many interviews he has done.
Well this has aged well.
Don Veinot – “We talk about it in our article, “The Chosen Dilemma” and Dallas Jenkins pointing that out in his interview “A Candid Conversation with Dallas Jenkins, Director of The Chosen” with our friend, Melissa Dougherty. He has said this in other places as well.”
Mr Veinot is referring to a recent interview last December by Allie Beth Stuckey where Dallas proudly said this point blank to her. And as with Melissa Dougherty two years ago, there was no reaction or any further questions by Stuckey concerning this glaring admission by Dallas in spite of his saying in the same breath how his depiction of Jesus is the most accurate and authentic.
I’ve included the source link in the description of my video where I break down Stuckey’s interview and some of the troubling issues that occured durring it, along with pointing out some issues that occured before and after the interview.
Was Allie’s Title Question “Is The Chosen Biblical” Answered on Relatable?
“Concerned but Keep Watching”, “Take the show on its own merits”. Watching any episode is detrimental to all, it leads to a different jesus, and causes Christians to sin (Matt. 18:3-6). If you lead a Christian to sin, woe to you. The show is complete Idolatry. I watched a small portion, and it literally made me sick to my stomach. It is another bible (like the Message) written by Jenkins and his Mormon deceivers. “And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:” Deuteronomy 4:12-18
It is my understanding that none of the Chosen was written by Mormons. It’s true that Jenkins consults with a Jewish Rabbi, a Catholic theologian, and another pastor (I believe), but no Mormons. He did begin filming in studios that were owned by Mormons, but that is no different than if he filmed in e.g., a Hollywood studio.
I appreciated these thoughts. We have really enjoyed The Chosen and are thankful that many who watch are digging deeper into their Bibles because of it! I also love the casting of Matthew as somewhere on the spectrum. Having and living with a son with Asperger’s (who is also watching the show), I am intrigued and deeply moved by this character and the reactions of those around him. Jesus acts like he is a completely normal guy, not the least bit annoyed by his uniqueness! Brilliant! My one take away from The Chosen is that it is not “cheesy” or showing everything all fitting in a tidy little moralistic package as nearly every other Christian-based production does. In the end. The Chosen points us back to Christ alone. We need more Christian art, in whatever form, like this.
Just curious, how do you know many are digging deeper into the Bible after watching this Chosen film and not taking it as a substitute for actually reading the Bible?
Would you be concerned that they use an LDS patented called “Heartsell” ? LDS leaders use this audible sound in Mormon general conference to get the members a feel good emotional feeling to verify what they are hearing is from God. It’s not.
Are you concerned that God used a donkey to rebuke a prophet??.. Just saying. God uses lots of things and people to do HIS bidding
It should probably be noted that God used a donkey to correct a disobedient prophet for hire. As we point out in “The Chosen Dilemma“, Dallas Jenkins has been clear that 95% of what is on the screen is invented and isn’t intended to be the Bible. We also point out that on his personal page he promoted Richard Rohr who is heretical in his teaching on God, Jesus, salvation, penal substitution, and more. Others are promoting false gospels on their social media. These are not directly in the show but the show invites the fans to engage and be recruited into false beliefs in core areas. That should be a concern.
THANK YOU, DON!!!
AGAIN, PRAY PRAY PRAY !!! LEAVE IT TO GOD TO JUDGE AND SORT IT OUT!!! Don’t be a problem, LET GOD BE THE SOLUTION
Don, I read somewhere that Dallas has a Catholic priest, a Jewish Rabbi, and a Mormon consulting for the content of the show. Do you know if the Mormon part is true?
That is a great question. There are enough issues of serious concern with the program, as we point out in The Chosen Dilemma, that it is essential not to misstate this sort of info. Mormons surround Dallas but officially the three theological consultants are Dr. Doug Huffman from BIOLA, Messianic Rabbi Jason Sobel, and Roman Catholic Bishop Robert Barron. Dallas has said that 95% of the storyline is invented but he is trying to keep it accurate to the times. It is unfortunate so many viewers think they are getting the biblical story. They are not.
THIS SHOW IS AN ANOINTED WORK OF GOD despite any human frailties. DO NOT CRITICIZE what God has anointed!!!! PRAY FOR THE CAST, PRAY FOR THE DIRECTOR, Actors and Producers. PRAY THAT MANY, MANY people INCLUDING Mormans come to know Jesus as their PERSONAL SAVIOR. THAT’S WHAT ITS all about!!!!?
Diana, The show is NOT an anointed work of God; it is the work of fallible people, including Mormons! It plays fast and loose with the Bible, it is a fake, fictional version of someone’s ideas about Jesus. Try using a wee bit of discernment.
I’ll pray for you as well.
MORMANS CAN BE SAVED TOO. EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE
name of LORD JESUS Crrist shall be saved.
I never suggested Mormons can’t be saved; I am an ex-Mormon. But you don’t save anyone with false teachings.
Way too much debate, not enough prayer!! And that’s my final comment.
What makes you think we aren’t having as much prayer as comments? You really don’t seem to like the truth told about how unbiblical “The Chosen” is!
Proverbs 6:19 does not apply to me and if that is what you meant then you are bearing false witness.
Proverbs 6:19 DOES apply to that false and blasphemous story called “The Chosen.”
VERY well said, Karen! Anytime God is using something like this the ENEMY is right there to criticize and cause division, which God. HATES. PRAY FOR THESE PEOPLE WHO DAY HATEFUL THINGS. GOD BLESS
When you divide truth from falsehood, it causes division. It is not hateful to expose false teachings. I’m not your enemy or God’s enemy, but I am an enemy to false teachings and those who support false teachings and promote false teachings.
Not a fan. Not found of the Mormon connection. The Matthew character is very strange.
I totally disagree with your suggestion to keep watching it. It has too many unbiblical elements and it is giving attention and money to people who have a false belief system which can’t help but seep into the series itself. Get people away from their screens and point them to where the truth is — the Bible. I’m really surprised that this ministry would recommend it.
Greeting Glenn, there are different sorts of reasons why I might watch something like this. It isn’t the word of God but is loosely based on the Bible. I thought their making Peter a bar-room brawler/gambler, who run other schemes and scams to raise money to pay off loans and taxes was objectionable. However, like watching Star Wars to be able to address the false worldviews being taught there, being familiar with what is going on in this popular series can be useful to move someone to reading Scripture and getting to know the biblical characters and story directly from the biblical writers. As far as the money, they are crowd funding it, I haven’t contributed any money but watched if free on YouTube (season 1). As always, I appreciate hearing from you to keep us accountable.
We can use all sorts of things to teach truth, even cults’ own documents and “scriptures,” but recommending them to others is something I just can’t justify in any sense at all. And perhaps you didn’t spend money to see it, but by supporting it and recommending it you are still contributing to the audience which brings in more funds to the perpetrators of this nonsense.
Not what Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe but lol okay.
Sydney, what makes you say that? Just curious. What is it that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints not believe?
The different planet thing is not what members of that church belief. They belief that every being was “one with God in heaven” and had to come to Earth to receive the physical aspect of their bodies. The only differences are that humans existed before birth with God, and that Jesus visited more people than just those in Israel.
Of course, we cannot comment on what individual Mormons may or may not believe on any given subject. The official teachings now and in the past from their official publications are the official doctrines of the LDS church. The point of our article, “The Challenge of Communication: Defining Terms,” is that without understanding the definitions of terms we are not able to communicate. The official teaching of the LDS church is that we were all born as spirit beings on another planet to God the Father and one of his many wives. We came to earth and like God the Father have the opportunity to become gods and goddesses of our own planets as all gods before us have done, including God the Father. The “Preexistence/premortality Definition” is important in this discussion. This eight-minute animated overview of Mormon doctrine can be helpful.
I totally agree with you, Iam shocked at how many people like this show.
It is a different gospel and a different Jesus, and I also take the second commandment very seriously.
We are not to make any image of our creator.
People who do not read their bibles will believe everything they see and hear in this show.
And to have Peter call John the Baptist, creepy, that is so demeaning , John was a prophet of God, he was not creepy.
Every word the disciples said is not written. Common sense should tell you that we cannot determine every way they thought in their time and culture. Is is not above humans to mischaracterize good people. I’d eating locusts and wild honey and dressing in camel were not strange, startling, perhaps “creepy” to some, it wouldn’t have been mentioned in Scripture and accepted in the Canon. Don’t just read the words. Study the time, culture, historical background and put yourself in the story to understand what the writer is saying to the hearer.
Lori…this show is actually pretty darn good…entertaining, and a bit profound at times. Take off your Pharisee robes for a moment and view it again……a lot of great takes on the what ifs in the Bible.
Philip, you demonstrate a real lack of discernment if you think the show is good. It is full of fake stories and blasphemy, playing fast and loose with the Bible. It is not pharisaical to expose false teachings. To ignore just how bad the show is, is nothing less than burying your head in the sand.
From what I’ve read, I think that the “Mormons” only own the production company. they have nothing to do with the writing or the creation of the show. As Jenkins had said, it would be no different to use any other Hollywood production company, for instance, who are not necessarily believers. Besides, Jenkins has been building his own sets to use in Texas and won’t be filming anymore in Utah, I guess, with the Mormon production company.
If the Mormons own the production company, they are making money off of it. Why help finance a cult.
Besides, the series has lots of unbiblical nonsense as well as downright blasphemy, so why should Christians fill their minds with such trash?
Do you buy anything in stores that aren’t owned by Christians? Do you investigate what kind of Christians they are? Do you only go to restaurants that are owned by Christians, like Chick-fil-a? Do you check out your car dealers, your doctors, etc? Jenkins used their set because it was a perfect background for the movie. Would you complain if he used say, Warner Bros? That’s silly to say I won’t give any money for services to Mormons but I will give it to Hollywood.
Cults and Hollywood are different entities. Mormons actively seek to recruit new members of their cult.
Hollywood isn’t out recruiting.
However, I also spend very little money for Hollywood products. I also personally boycott as much as I can, businesses who promote, facilitate and fund the LGBTQXY agenda (e.g. Oreos).
But set aside the Mormon issue for a moment and explain how you can support anyone watching the trash of “The Chosen”? It is unbiblical nonsense and often blasphemous. You don’t even have to think about who produces it if you just refuse to support ungodly/unbiblical/blasphemous movies.
THANK YOU!! Thanks you for this. Joe and I loved Season One and recommended The Chosen to folks until I heard Dallas say he believes Mormons and Christians believe in the same Jesus. Now we preface the recommendation with Dallas’s beliefs. He has said, and I very loosely quote, “LDS have come to me saying ‘That’s it! That’s Jesus!” Which, considering their Jesus is all human, I don’t know, it doesn’t set right with me. As a writer I have no problem with artistic license. None. Until the LDS find there Jesus in it. Link is from an interview Melissa Dougherty conducted with Dallas who explains his views. She’s gracious but does try to hold him accountable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__-Yyq1FPQI&t=1147s
Remember that the Samaritan woman at the well was equally loved by Jesus and he didn’t quiz her on how her beliefs differed from the Jews. the Jews hated the Samaritans and the Samaritans did have some different, even pagan, ideas. And, remember the good thief on the cross, who recognized Jesus and Jesus, without missing a beat, forgave him. So, be kind, and yes, lead people to Christ, but keep in mind that they are just as important to him as you are. Did it ever occur to any of you that Jenkins may be using this opportunity to explain and share Jesus in hopes of drawing people closer? That maybe those Mormons working with him may see Christ? God doesn’t call us to be theologians. He asks that we love Him, even if we don’t understand everything about Him–and none of us really do. Smugness and self-righteousness only turns people off.
Sad that people won’t read the Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them the meaning. Any movie that panders to the crowd is a waste of time. Jesus was not a panderer. While utterly kind and compassionate, He did not mince His words. His followers were told: I am the way and the truth and the life. No man cones to the Father but by me.
No frills. God has t’s and c’s. Why wouldn’t He? He is the Supreme God, the Creator of the Universe and everything in it.
It is sad. There has been a drift away from regular reading and serious study of the word of God as well as sound biblical teaching from the pulpit for about 50 years now. However, like so many films, series and books, etc. which uses spiritual images and storylines, I can use what they are watching to move them to what Scripture actually says and teaches.
In season one, they followed the scriptures very closely and took license on things that didn’t matter. Season 2 ep 5 is kind of a deal breaker for me.
The demoniac named legion story is a very powerful one and the context is important. They completely changed it. And Mary clung so hard to Jesus once delivered, would have NEVER looked back. She washed His feet with her hair and tears. She was the first one to run to the empty tomb. Once delivered a Christian cannot be demonized. The Spirit of God indwells you and cannot cohabitate with demons.
So it’s completely out of character. So is Jesus rehearsing His sermon. He is called “The Word”. By Him and through Him are all things.
He taught scribes in the temple as a young child.
He was God and didn’t have to pick His words. He just spoke truth.
That by itself I can almost give an artistic pass on but the changing of stories and creating new ones kind of seals it for me. If something is 99% true it is still false. Telling the story of Jesus is a huge responsibility not to be taken lightly.
I agree with you. Something has changed. I follow them on social media. They have an hashtag Jedi Jesus. I really abhor thinhs like that.
I am very troubled by “professing” Christians who are supportive of the tv series “The Chosen”. I have a dear friend who clearly believes this series is a good teaching tool, despite its obvious contradictions to scripture. I have not watched and do not intend to. However, I have a critique based on a conversation I had with my friend. She was gleefully telling me all about “Mary Magdalene”, where she apparently hides behind an altar ego by the name of Lilith. I researched this and could find nothing, nada, zilch on where this bit of fiction came from. She also told me that she is portrayed as the same Mary who anointed Jesus with the perfume and that she was a prostitute. I researched this as well, this is a lie from the RCC, who decided this Mary’s sin was prostitution. There has never been any scriptural evidence of this at all. Also, the Mary who anointed Jesus feet, was Mary of Bethany–sister of Lazaras and Martha, at least that is what my research and reading of the scripture tells me. So I am guessing Mr. Jenkins got this bit of fiction from his RCC “expert”. I read another reviewer who quotes Mr. Jenkins “that this series is 95% fiction”. Do the math and that makes it 5% truth. The one other thing my friend mentioned was how Jesus has to “prepare” for his sermon on the mount, so he can get it “just right”. Would Jesus, who is God in the flesh, need to prepare in this way? He was able to respond very quickly to those manipulative pharisees who were always trying to trap him into saying the wrong thing, it was the pharisees who always went away from those confrontations as losers of the battle of words. Jesus came prepared to do the work of His Father. I am having a lot of trouble with all the people involved who are not Christian, A devout Roman Catholic who prays his rosary, a Roman Catholic priest who believes you have to go through Mary to get to Jesus, a Morman who falsely believes Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, a Jewish Rabbi who denies the messiah altogether?? This series does not seem like a teaching tool to me at all, it seems more like it is from Satan, designed to confuse what the word of God actually says. My advice, stick to the bible, the real 100% truth provided by God through inspiration of the Holy Spirit because it tells the truth about the Real Jesus!
Thank you for your comments, Linda. Dr. Jonathan Miles piece was as much a critique of the church as commentary on the series. He also was clear that MCOI does not take a position on this series at this point. A key consideration you raise is something which was pointed out in “Harsh Criticism of ‘The Chosen’ Draws Emotional Response from Dallas Jenkins,”
It clearly isn’t the Bible and as Dallas Jenkins points out, isn’t a substitute for the Bible. It is a series loosely based on characters in Scripture. Personally, I was troubled with the series painting up Peter as someone of questionable character, a tax scofflaw who engaged in bar room brawls to supplement his income and acted as a sort of double agent between the Roman government and his Jewish brethren.
As a mission to cults and non-Christian religions we engage with all sorts of people who hold all manner of beliefs and being aware of what they believe, are reading and viewing often gives us starting points to get to what Scripture actually teaches. Too many churches do not teach their people in the essentials of the faith. As Jonathan comments,
Indeed, it is a reason to teach the Bible, especially to those who mistakenly think Jesus had to puzzle though what He might say in His sermon as though the One who is fully human and fully the omniscient God was unsure about what He would need to say.
We as born again believers need to be in unity. Stop the nitpicking, criticizing and PRAY, PRAY PRAY!!!!! WE NEED TO STAND AGAINST THE REAL ENEMY WHICH IS SATAN
As a Catholic I would appreciate it if you please understand what exactly we believe. We do not say that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. This was something that, I guess, people speculated about since she had demons and some held it was true. We don’t teach that she was the Mary who washed Jesus’ feet with her tears either. And we definitely don’t believe that you must go thru Mary to reach Jesus. Most Protestants don’t really understand what we believe and choose to put their own spin on it and create more misunderstanding.
As I read Linda’s comments I noted that she raised concerns about what individuals associated with the show believe or do as well as ways the show misrepresents biblical characters and narratives. As we point out in “The Chosen Dilemma” Dallas Jenkins states that 95% of the content of the show is invented. A central issue of contention between the Roman Catholic Church, and those of us in the evangelical camp is the question of salvation. Is salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone or it is through Rome Alone? Our article, “Thus Saith Rome” takes a brief look at that.
I grew up with Catholics and yes they do believe Mary was a prostitute (but then so did Lutherans so…). My question was always if you do not need to go though Mary to get to Jesus then why pray to her or any of the saints?
Thanks for replying. I think the idea that Mary was a prostitute circulated for a while because she had so many demons. Some just made that assumption about her. But, I haven’t heard that in recent years and I am 75 yrs. old. Also, knew that Mary that washed Jesus’ feet was not Magdalene.
We ask Mary and the saints in heaven to pray for us just as we ask the rest of the body of Christ on earth to pray for us. We are all united in one body. Of course we go directly to God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, but we ask the saints to also offer their prayers to God for us. They may have gone before us but I don’t think they have amnesia. We are all waiting for resurrection of our glorified bodies and those of us on earth need prayers.
Nowhere in Scripture do we find any mention of dead people in heaven praying for people on earth. Neither Mary nor the “saints” have any special powers to intercede for us. We have only ONE intercessor, and that is Jesus. Praying to Mary and the saints is worthless.
Thanks for your interpretation. Rev. 5:8 and other verses in Rev speak about the prayers of the saints. And there are references to those in heaven in the bible. One is, “there is more joy in heaven…over one sinner who repents..” Our friends on earth pray for us–are they any more “special” or powerful than those who are in heaven? Why do you not think that we are all one body? Why do you think that those who have gone before us have forgotten about us and don’t pray to God for us? Aren’t we all part of Christ’s body? Explain to me why you think we are not connected.
Revelation is a special example of way in the future. But thanks for towing the Catholic line.
Here’s the thing. On earth we pray to JESUS as our intercessor, we don’t pray to others to pray to Jesus, which is what you are doing when you pray to Jesus and the Saints — you are PRAYING to THEM and asking them to pray to Jesus? OR are you just praying to them as intercessors? We do not pray to anyone but Jesus/God. Which is why you won’t find any example of people on earth praying to dead people in heaven.
When I say we “pray” to saints I mean we ask or implore them to offer their prayers for us. As we ask or implore our fellow Christians here to offer their prayers for us. We don’t “pray” in adoration of saints, who are alive and not dead, btw. Their bodies are dead. To be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. I wish you could explain to me why you think that when a person dies, e.g., Peter, that they would not continue praying for the church on earth. Why do you believe there is no connection between the members of the body?
The Catholic Church does not definitively teach that the three Marys were the same. Scholars since the early church have differed on the question. In my opinion, although Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus’ feet (presumably in Bethany) it does not make her the same as the unnamed penitent woman who anointed Jesus’ feet in the home of Simon the Pharisee near Galilee. As for Mary of Magdala she may or may not have been the penitent woman in John’s Gospel. No one knows for sure. Moreover the Church does not formally define the sin of the penitent woman. So please don’t say the “RCC lied” as your pastors teach you without reading for themselves what the Catechism of the RCC teaches. Anyone is free to read the official Catechism of the Church before making unfounded statements. Opinions regarding non doctrinal parts of scripture are allowed. To accuse the RCC of “lying” via passing on rumors is detraction. It shows a prejudice, not a knowledgeable effort to understand.
I see The Chosen as a possible vehicle for bringing the lukewarm or uncatechized into familiarity with Jesus as a real person, not a myth or fairytale, as our culture has taught. Once you know Jesus and his claim to be son of God you must make a choice (“follow me”). This show has great value in presenting that choice as a reality. It is likely that this media event may lead more people to consider scripture or to pick up the Bible, or even to come to love Jesus.
The show itself is, yes, loosely based on scripture, and yes, there are concerns. What led me to this posting was someone telling me that the show and it’s backers and creators were Mormon. As a pastor, I found that very troubling and would be a deal breaker for me considering Mormon theology.
After extensive study on the subject, including this posting, I’ve concluded that the show itself must be judged based on whether:
– that there’s any blasphemous content … as of yet, I’ve found none.
– that there’s been undue interference by the producers, writers, directors or other staff to influence content … as of yet, I’ve found none. Having worked the the radio and television industry in my prior life before ministry, I can spot bovine excrement of this nature.
– if the content agrees or departs from scripture. Thus far, although license is taken in surrounding plots, scriptural themes are kept.
– whether this can be used as a tool for evangelism. It can. Many unchurched people have a vision of Christ that He’s untouchable and unapproachable. This is totally contrary to scripture, and the show portrays a very approachable Jesus. This is important when evangelizing and trying to plant the seeds of someone confessing their sins and believing in Jesus as their savior.
My job as shepherd a pneumonia evangelist and pastor is made easier by tools such as this, so long as it comports with scripture. If at any time, I see it departing from it, or becoming blasphemous, I will pull my support for it. As for now, I do support it and will use it as a tool in my evangelism toolkit, with the usual caveats included in this post.
So you don’t think that showing Jesus rehearsing his Sermon on the Mount speech is blasphemous? That’s just one thing. The Son of God, very God, is shown rehearsing his speech and accepting a blue sash as a symbol of royalty for his speech!!!
Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. Perhaps the human part of him wanted to rehearse. How is that blasphemous? Also, while he was wearing the blue sash, that was for peace. Purple is the colour for royalty.
AMEN AND AMEN
1 – Mormonism is a cult. 2 – Satan is behind all cults. 3 – Satan wants to be God and very cunningly uses whatever he can to de-value Jesus Christ, and that is what this series is about. 4 – Watch it if you want, but you are putting your soul in peril.
There was an interview on one of the Chosen background shows in which Jenkins was interviewed by a Very articulate and intelligent Mormon reporter. It was an excellent interview and from memory the reporter stated that there were significant doctrinal differences which most Mormons were not aware of (especially those who call themselves “Christian”. But Jenkins and the reporter agreed that for the good of all involved it would be more fruitful to focus upon what Christians and Mormons had in common. We very definitely do not worship the same Jesus. Since they don’t consider Jesus on the same level as the Father, who they do worship, it is doubtful that Mormons worship Jesus who ney consider less than the Father.
Their view of God is a false God but they do worship the version of Jesus the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has invented. In their teaching, the Father was once a man who became a god. As the fifth president of the Mormon church said, “As man is, good once was. As god is, man may become.” Jesus (and all of us) were born on another planet and came to earth to obtain a physical body in order to work our way to godhood like all gods before us. Jesus is our “elder brother” who, like all gods before him also became God. The church is called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and as such, they do worship that Jesus. It is, however, a false Jesus and a false gospel.
I understand mainstream Christians misunderstandings about our Religious beliefs, but I’m curious what the alternative is. To me, Satan being Christ’s brother isn’t contentious at all, just as Satan being my brother doesn’t change who Satan is to me – the devil.
Who is Satan to you? Where did he come from? Who gave him his power/authority? Why is he allowed to tempt/control us?
That is a great question. You are correct most mainstream Christians misunderstand the official beliefs and teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In part that is because the LDS use the same language as evangelicals but with very different definitions. The other problem is many evangelicals do not understand their own faith.
It is not surprising that the idea of Satan being Christ’s brother or your brother isn’t “contentious” because you have embraced LDS teaching. Biblically, Satan/Lucifer/the Father of Lies wasn’t “born” but was created. The Son of God who incarnated into human form wasn’t created but has eternally existed as God and is the creator of all that was created (John 1:1-3). By trying to place the Son of God, Satan and yourself on an equal plane you have effectively attempted to lower the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, infinite God to a finite being that came into existence at a point and time. Through doing the right sorts of works this being (and you) was able to come to earth to receive a physical body and advance to being a god like all gods before him and all those who also become gods and goddesses after him. The idea is directly refuted by God in such places as Isaiah:
Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. (Isaiah 43:10)
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. Who is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and set it before me, since I appointed an ancient people. Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen. Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.” (Isaiah 44:6-8)
The idea you have come to believe is not even taught in the book of Mormon but was a later invention by Joseph Smith. In fact, Moroni 8:18, “God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity” reads remarkably close to Psalm 90:2, “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.” We do not reject it because we don’t understand it but because it is a false teaching which is refuted by God Himself.
2nd question. What is the problem with being born on a different planet? I’m not sure what that’s referenced to specifically (a quote from someone). I’ve never heard of it as a “planet” but I do know we weren’t born here as spirits. We lived as spirits before the earth was created, and we will live as spirits until resurrection when we die.
Do Christians believe God only created one planet (earth)? That there couldn’t possibly be any other place where his children might be right now as well? I’m ginuinely curious for your response. Thanks!
Greetings again Justin,
The official LDS teaching is that we were born on another planet near Kolob as spirit beings to Elohim and one of his many wives to eventually populate the planet earth. God had also been born on yet another planet, worked his way to godhood, fashioned his planet near Kolob and began producing offspring. All who ascend to godhood on earth will also become gods and goddesses of their own planets and repeat the process. As Lorenzo Snow, the fifth president of the LDS said, “As man is god once was. As God is, man may become.” None of this is supported by the Bible or Book of Mormon but was the invention of Joseph Smith Jr. According to the Bible we didn’t exist prior to our conception in our mother’s womb at which time our body and spirit came into being.
Christians believe God created the entire cosmos, all planets, stars, etc. He spoke and it existed. So, we do not have a problem believing other planets exist but find no evidence of our preexistence or being born on one planet and moving to this planet to continue our process of becoming gods like all gods before us.
Don, most evangelicals would say none of that is theological accurate nor defensible, even from a textual critical standpoint whereas the Bible can be.
I love my Mormon friends, some of the best people I’ve ever met, despite the fact that I believe there are serious theological differences beyween Christianity and Mormonism.
Nonetheless, I see no LDS doctrine in The Chosen yet. I find the arristic license with the thousands of hours of life the series is trying to look at outside what the Bible says is fine as long as it doesn’t promote any heretical doctrines. And as I said, I haven’t seen it.
So far, love the series.
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterdays. I have never heard of a few of your examples – negative comments that I have never heard of in our Church. We may have differences of opinion or think differently than others on certain points.That is pretty common in the world of Christian communities. But I feel that as long as we love and honor the Savior of the world
Usually Kathy evangelicals struggle with the question, “WHICH Jesus do you Love?” I have no doubt you love Jesus, but my question to folks to make sure we’re on the same page is just what I mentioned above, “which Jesus do you love?”
However, Jesus’ true nature, and the nature of the Holy Spirit and the Trinity is not open for debate as a Christian.
In fact, you can’t be a Christian w/o adhering to all the tenants of the faith. All religions have them. You can be something else, but not that.
I just watched a review of season 2, episode and and found to be blasphemous and about as bad as it can get. Did you know that Jenkins supposed had an “experience” with God and that God told him that “The Chosen” would be the “definitive portrayal of [His] people” and that He wouldn’t let Dallas “screw it up”? This from a guy who claims the LDS Jesus is the same as the Christian Jesus and yet you think it is an okay series to recommend as long as discernment is used?!?!? I’m really surprised at MCO’s lackadaisical approach to this horrid series backed by the LDS and think it still has “merits.”
Thanks for the comments Glenn. Joy and I haven’t watched anything beyond season one. Season one had issues, literary liberties let’s say, but no overt heresy. It does concern me that in a largely biblically illiterate church and culture many will get their theology from works like this. I have also heard of issues like rehearsing the Sermon on the Mount. May as well have him consulting the Enneagram to to figure out what His number is
Me. Chatfield, your bitterness and contention as an ex- Mormon are making the Mormons look better and better every time you post. Are there anyone you don’t take issue with? Pharisaical is right.
I agree with you. I watched most of the first season after buying the blu-ray and I didn’t really care for it overall, because of the liberties taken with the scriptural accounts. Then I heard of the involvement of the LDS and Jenkins’ comments that he feels they are “Christians”. Only the Lord can determine the faith of individuals, but the belief system of the Mormons makes it almost impossible for then to come to truth Faith. I am so sorry I bought the blu-ray as possibly I could be supporting the Mormon church indirectly as the production company is owned by LDS, as well as the executive producer. I’m deciding to have nothing to do with season 2. My Dad said that Jenkins is a pawn in the Mormons’ hands. I agree with this because he’s playing into their attempts to present themselves as misunderstood Christians. Anyone who thinks Mormons are true Believers should read Micah Wilder’s book “Passport to Heaven”. I’m not sure Christians should be so tolerant of this production and we need to use more discernment.
“but the belief system of the Mormons makes it almost impossible for then to come to truth Faith”
Actually, it isn’t that impossible. They just have to get the truth an learn of how convoluted their teachings are. I used to be a Mormon.
I wish that believers would have the eyes to see the fingers pointing back at themselves when they cast aspersions at others. In many of these posts, the writers cast judgment on the imagination of those behind The Chosen, because it is not in alignment with how their own imagination pictures the events. And, to be clear, I have never heard anyone from The Chosen urge people to put aside their Bibles and use the videos in their place. The world does not need any more straw man arguments. Finally, some of you must have quite the beef with the Apostle Paul who quoted poetry from pagan sources. How dare he when brother David had so many psalms he could have quoted!
Hi. I am interested in your comment about Paul. What were the pagan poems he quoted. I agree with you and some of friends in bible class have talked down about Paul.
Thank you for this article I found by searching online to explore’The Chosen’ connection to LDS. The questions I have were answered very well.
As to other concerns raised by you and many commentators, I think it is very worthwhile to not be too quick to form judgements. We can watch and pray for discernment for ourselves and others. I find many of the scenes moving and plausible even if not strictly biblical. Jesus was human and apparently extremely approachable by the ‘unwanted’. We can rejoice in the scenes that show Jesus truly filled with joy with the healings and truly compassionate to the despised. That is worth all of us seeing. If it opens up a non believing person to looking into Jesus, we can, and should, trust God to know how to take it from there.
Thank you for your comment. Although I don’t agree with your interpretation in every aspect, I appreciate the fact that you did research and aren’t speaking off the top of your head. We believe in Christ’s words at the Last Supper when He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said, “Take and eat for this is my Body…Take and drink for this is my Blood…DO this in remembrance of me. You choose to do this symbolically. We choose to do it exactly as He said it. This format is not conducive to have long debates or discussions about differences. I realize that. I thank you for your time and insights.
Wow…. so here is my take:
#1. How quickly so many Christians are to rush to condemn The Chosen, a production that has brought millions to investigate the gospel of Christ and find their faith. Remind me what you had before The Chosen?? And now that you have it, you whine because it fails to walk in lock-step with your particular interpretation of what it means to follow Christ?
#2. The level of hatred seething from so-called “love thy neighbor” Christians towards members of another faith is just astonishing in its’ sheer irony and hypocrisy.
The Spirit of the Lord is not present in places like this. You can feel it. And those of you that drive that Spirit away need to look inwardly and repent.
I appreciate your comments, Benjamin and the questions they raise. The first question raised in my mind as I read them was, “Did he even bother to read Jonathan’s article?” When Jonathan wrote, “It’s also not a reason for me to stop watching the show or using it,” “Christians are to rush to condemn The Chosen.” Perhaps you would be kind enough to enlighten us where Jonathan was rushing to condemn the production. It should be noted that Dallas Jenkins has been clear that the Chosen isn’t the biblical story and they have made up 95% of what the viewers watch.
I also appreciated this comment, “Remind me what you had before The Chosen??” For me, that one is easy. I had and continue to have the Bible, but I do realize there are many who attend church but are fairly unfamiliar with that particular book or the Jesus in the pages of its text. As far as loving our neighbor, wouldn’t the loving thing to do be to warn them of being eternally separated from God and explain their opportunity to be forgiven of sin and have peace with God by believing in the One who died for our sin and raising Himself from the dead?
Where is the evidence that The Chosen “has brought millions to investigate the gospel of Christ and find their faith”? That’s just an assertion! The series has so much false teaching that it more likely lead people to a false Jesus.
The series has a lot of LDS influence, and now they have an app which allows the viewer to pray the Rosary and pray to Catholic saints!
As Don points out, the series in 95% made up out of the writers’ imaginations and not biblical at all!
The series is a poor evangelistic tool. As Don also said, we have the Bible and have no need for fantasy which actually blasphemes Jesus in many ways. My blog has several posts in which either I examine problems with the series or in which I give links to articles by others exposing the false teachings of this series. No Christian should waste time with the serie or recommend it to anyone else.
I know you probably haven’t ever considered this, but maybe YOU are worshiping a false Jesus. The only difference is LDS people will continue to acknowledge the good that comes from your beliefs as opposed to being called other, less Christ-like things.
But at least those things come from love and concern from one’s salvation (Sarcasm).
I worship the REAL Jesus of the Bible, the one Christians have worshiped for 2000 years, and not one the Joseph Smith made up, a Jesus who can’t save anyone.
My ministry has always been about teaching the truth out of love and concern for the salvation of others.
And I don’t call people “less than Christ-like things.”
What makes you any different than the hundred other Christian faiths based on the new testament?
Is that all that matters, stick to the new testament and that’s the real Jesus, regardless of doctrine, ordinances?
What of non-denominational Christians, evangelicals? They worship your same Jesus. Are you guys all the same?
Furthermore, the irony is that you guys actually invent a whole new Jesus. There is only ONE Jesus. We can disagree on doctrinal issues, but LDS people don’t think for a second you worship some other Jesus like you say LDS people do. That’s what is pretty striking in your Christ-like language.
The short answer is, the Jesus of the New Testament is the real Jesus. The New Testament writings were completed in the First Century and any new documents and teachings on the essential doctrines of the faith are to be judged by the Old and New Testament writings. This includes the Qur’an, Dianetics, the Urantia Book, Baha’i, etc, and the Jesus they claim. In 2 Corinthians 11:4, Paul scolds the Corinthians for receiving a false Jesus, “For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.” (Corinthians 11:4). There is one TRUE Jesus but many false ones offered up. There are quite a few Christian groups that are indeed Christians and vary in the important but non-essential doctrines of the faith. They have different views on how and when to baptize, how often to partake of communion, whehter or not the sign gifts are for today. Those are a matter of practice not of what must be beleived to have forgiveness and peace with God. We agree on the essentials of the faith:
God – monotheistic (one true God), trinitarian (within the nature of the one true God exist three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit). He created all things, is separate from creation but interacts with His creation.
Man – is part of creation and was created in the image of God. As Got Questions? explains, “It is a likeness mentally, morally, and socially.”
Sin – Eve was deceived into disobeying God and Adam chose to follow Eve’s lead. The disobedience (sin) caused a separation (death) between man and God. Since then, humans are born separated from God with a predisposition to sin (sin nature) and we also choose to sin.
Salvation – When Adam and Eve sinned, God provided temporary payment for sin in the form of animal sacrifice. This continued until the Son, Jesus, second person of the Trinity, incarnated (took on humanity), lived a perfect life in our place and died a death we deserved, to pay the penalty for sin that we owed, providing peace with God by calling on the Name of the Son for salvation.
Resurrection – The resurrection of the Savior was physical and demonstrated death itself was conquered. This pointed to the promised redemption of the whole person spirit and body. When Christians breathe their last, their spirit separates from their body and goes to be with God. At the resurrection, their physical body is raised, and their spirit is reunited with their body.
As it turns out, even the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints makes clear that they believe in a teach a different Jesus. For others that are reading, this may be helpful,”10 Reasons Why the Jesus of Mormonism is Not the Same as the Jesus of the Bible“
You know so much and yet you consider baptism a non-essential doctrine! You’re the embodiment of someone who has a form of godliness yet denies the power thereof. Why did Jesus get baptized?
If Paul taught
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
You and other Christian denominations, who you agree know the true Jesus, aren’t united in faith. Disagreeing on baptism, sacrament emblems or need, worship practices, tithe, temple service, isn’t being united in faith.
Jesus was baptized according to the Mosaic Covenant with the Nation of Israel, “To fulfill all righteousness.” as he Himself said.
He lived a perfect life we can not live, and died for our sin in our place, then raised His physical body from the dead to defeat death. As a result, our bodies too will be raised and our spirit will rejoin it at the time. As Jewish rite, Peter and the other twelve were sent to baptize and only went to Jews for the first 10 years after the resurrection. When Paul was called and sent, he clearly said he was NOT sent to baptize (1 Corinthians 11:17). We are now baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13). Baptism is not for salvation and there are twelve types of baptism in Scripture, five are with water. So, some do full immersion, others sprinkle, and others pour. It is viewed as a testimony to salvation, not something that brings salvation.
Unity is not the same as uniformity. My wife can have unity as a married couple but not agree on everything. Disagreemnt or doing things differently isn’t uniformity but can be unity. Now while this has been an intersting exercise, I notice that you have avoided addressing the official Mormon teaching a differnt Jesus. The information in my previous response works from official LDS material. It is insufficient for you to simply attack, it is also important to defend the official position of the church in order to have credibility and honesty in the discussion.
You’re correct, Jesus was baptized, not because he needed a remission of His sins (had none), but because he fulfilled all righteousness. As in, baptism is essential for salvation, why else would He do it? It is a commandment to return to live with our Heavenly Father.
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Don’t overcomplicate what he said. Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost are essential tenants to return to live with God again.
Jesus knew that, and he made those covenants as well with His Father. We do it to make covenants and receive a remission of our sins.
You can beat the anti-mormon drum all you want, I don’t belong to the Church of Mormon. If you don’t believe baptism is an essential tenant of salvation, even though Jesus said and actually participated in, then perhaps you do believe in a different Jesus.
I for one follow the Christ of the New Testament and Old. The Great I Am. Alpha and Omega. He’s not restricted to a few hundred pages of writing during His mortal ministry during the first century. I don’t put limits on what God can or can not do.
I appreciate your effort, but in your zeal to propagate LDS theology you have, perhaps unwittingly, engaged in double think. The first two sentences are contradictory and self-refuting. Jesus fulfilled all aspects of the Law and therefore was never in need of salvation. He never sinned (lacking performing all necessary righteous behavior in thought, deed, or action) and was, therefore, His humanity was never separated from God. Salvation is the removal of the sin barrier that separates sinners from the Holy God. So, as you rightly agree and as He said, He was baptized to “fulfill all righteousness.” As He pointed out in Matthew 5:18:
In your second line, we read, “As in, baptism is essential for salvation, why else would He do it?” As this is written, it implies He was in need of salvation, and that is why He was baptized. So, either He was sinless and not in need of salvation or was a sinner in need of salvation it cannot really be both. If He was a sinner in need of salvation, He could not die for the sin of the world.
Next, there is no indication or explicit statement or teaching in Scripture to the effect that we lived with God prior to our conception and birth on earth. That teaching is an invention of a Nineteenth Century false prophet by the name of Joseph Smith, Jr.
In John 3:5, Nicodemus and, by implication, all of fallen humanity is “dead in the trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). “Dead” is separation, not non-existence. In this case, separated from God. Nicodemus and all of humanity are born of water (a natural birth) and, with the exception of Jesus need to be “born from above” or made spiritually alive. The whole context of the passage is comparing natural birth (That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6) It isn’t enough to have physical birth, we are in need of spiritual regeneration, new birth and that is done by the Holy Spirit when someone believes on the Lord Jesus Christ as YHWH, confesses He is YHWH and that He was raised from the dead. (Romans 10:9-13) It isn’t complicated. My friend and former JW, the late Lorri MacGregor, would often say, “If you believe in the right Jesus, you are right for all eternity. If you believe in the wrong Jesus, you are wrong for all eternity.” She is correct. You may not be officially LDS, and yet, you are relying on LDS teaching on the nature of God, man and salvation, all of which are false. I would, again, suggest you look at 10 Reasons Why the Jesus of Mormonism is Not the Same as the Jesus of the Bible
You’re confusing the ordinance of baptism. It is a covenant you make with God. Through that covenant, God will forgive you of your sins. To enter the kingdom of God, you must make that covenant which is why Christ was baptized by someone with authority to do so.
So, Christ can still be in need of being baptized and be sinless. They aren’t mutually exclusive. That is why it’s an essential doctrine even though you guys don’t seem to care about it.
I understand this is a teaching of the LDS church but I also understand it is not to be found or supported in the 66 canonized books of Scripture. It is the invention of the false apostles and false prophets of the LDS church. Biblically, water baptism is a symbolical cleansing and has no connection to making a covenant. Your opinion on this may be important to you but is irrelevant in terms of salvation and eternity. There is nothing in the 66 canonized books of the Bible which implicitly or explicitly requires making a baptismal covenant to enter the Kingdom of God. That is also a late invention of a false prophet and false apostles. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone and Paul and others explain in Romans 10:9-13, 1 Corinthians 15:3-9. 28 times in the gospel of John he reiterates that we must believe
Well, if it’s grace alone and faith, I guess I’m saved! See you guys in heaven!
Yes, it is by grace alone through faith alone in the true Jesus of Scripture, not through the false Jesus of the LDS. If you have the right Jesus, you are right for eternity. If you have the wrong Jesus, you are wrong (and lost) for all eternity.
Justin, I’m going to give you just ONE very important difference between the REAL Jesus and the Mormon Jesus. The REAL Jesus was born from a virgin, a woman in whom the Holy Spirit provided elements necessary to cause conception of a human baby. The LDS Jesus was born by their “God,” having physical, sexual intercourse to provide conception (even though the Bible says she was a virgin). I spell it all out in my article “The Non-Virgin Virgin Mary of Mormonism”
You’re going to use this semantic example to say baptism isn’t an essential doctrine of salvation.
I think this phrase sums it up best.
“I believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Saviour of the world; for he is the only-begotten of the Father, which could not be if the Father did not actually beget him in person.”
Christ wasn’t begotten of the Spirit, he was literally begotten of The Father. That’s why He is who is He is. DNA from deity.
Furthermore, anything said by a Prophet in a journal of discourse isn’t canonized scripture. It isn’t the position of His Church. That comes from an official statement through the first presidency and quorum of the twelve.
They are prophet but also normal people and have normal thoughts. They don’t know everything and can err like anyone else. So, take what you want out of the journal of discourses but those are basically their thoughts on the matter, not official doctrine
Again, the defense used here is from the LDS, not from the Old or New Testament. There was no physical, sexual interaction between God the Father and Mary:
Certainly, if God could create everything from nothing (which He did), part the Red Sea and the water stood up on edge (which He did), the Holy Spirit fertilizing the egg of a woman is not overly difficult for Him. In the incarnation, we have a unique person that is fully God and fully human. As God, the Son has existed from eternity past, as human, His incarnational body came into existence at the moment the Holy Spirit, the Most High, miraculously fertilized the egg. I find no compelling reason to believe the word of the false apostles or false prophets of the LDS. Holding on to their false Jesus can only result in false salvation.
Show me in canonized scripture that the position of The Church of Jesus Christ, says God literally came down and had sex with Mary, just as we do today.
Feel free to look through The entire Bible, BoM, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price.
Of course, the 66 canonized books of the Bible do not teach that, nor do they reference or point to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As to the official teachings of the LDS church, we can start with:
For others who may be following this thread, they may be interested in an in-depth look at Mormon teaching on this question in “Redefining the Virgin Birth: Mormonism on the Natural Conception of Jesus” Second, it was you who wrote,
But if Luke was wrong and it wasn’t the Holy Spirit but was “literally” the Father Who literally passed on His DNA, was that not a physical, sexual act as McConkie describes?
I also note again that you have avoided defending the view that the Jesus of Mormonism is the same Jesus in the text of the 66 books of canonized Scripture. Distracting by raising other issues doesn’t really help you demonstrate your case.
You can hypothesize all you want about how God begat his only begotten Son. It was God’s DNA. Pulling personal thoughts and teachings doesn’t make it doctrine just because McConkie wrote what he thought in Mormon Doctrine. That’s not canonized scripture by the LDS church no matter how much you want it to be.
The irony is you say in 66 canonized books in the bible there isn’t any reference to the Church of Jesus Christ, the ordinances, priesthood authority, and organization.
You focus on virgin, Satan, only begotten, and dismiss priesthood authority, ordinances, baptisms, holy ghost, etc.
I don’t have to “hypothesize” at all. That was your claim, not mine. Jesus was and will continue to be fully God and fully man, two natures. The infinite, eternal God has no DNA; the human Jesus does. The finite god of Mormonism came into being at a point in time and became a god as all gods before him. It isn’t my claim to defend. That one is on the LDS church, and since you seem to hold it as well, something for you to defend.
Again, it baffles me to see you guys, clearly know a lot, but don’t know how anything actually works. It is sad. We were created in God’s image, and Christ is the only begotten of the Father, but God doesn’t have any DNA. He’s just something mysterious I suppose?!?!
And, when your refute priesthood authority, I can see how you get to a place when essential doctrines of salvation don’t matter, and knowing who and what God actually is seems mysterious.
But, these are also things in content not debating about because little good comes from any of that.
My original post was in support of The Chosen which many of you hate because of supposed LDS influences, which are of the devil, who definitely isn’t Christ’s or your or my brother because that’s just blasphemous.
Correct, we were created in God’s image, and God doesn’t have DNA, He is not a physical being “God is spirit” (John 4:24). God is omnipresent, if He was physically there would be no room for the physical universe. Being created in God’s image has nothing to do with a physical body but with the immaterial part of man. Man was created as a rational, relational, volitional agent that can reflect, think, write books, create art and have self-awareness. We have a conscience and can make moral decisions. All of this and more reflect God’s image.
The ”priesthood authority” is merely another invention of 19th Century false prophets and false apostles.
To be clear..you have zero Authority …as God already made it clear…the Melchizedec Priesthood is not transferable…your underware is meaningless..
Show me in canonized scripture that the position of The Church of Jesus Christ, says …
There are a lot of LDS teaching which are only found in Journal of Discourse, teachings of prophets (by definition and claims of the prophets of the LDS that they get their teachings direct from God via revelation). It you actually looked at the article I linked to you’d see the teaching is in the JoD, teachings of Brigham Young, Heber Kimball, Orson Pratt, Joseph F. Smith, James Tallmage, Doctrines of Salvation (isn’t this a doctrine of the church?), New Testment Student Manual (official teachings!), Bruce McConkie’s book “Mormon Doctrine,” official LDS publication “The Promised Messiah: The First Coming of Christ,” Statement of the First Presidency, “Gospel Principals,” church curriculum, etc, etc, etc.
Don’t give me the cop-out that it’s not in your scriptures. It is taught throughout the LDS publications, by the presidents/prophets, etc. It IS official doctrine.
Glenn, I agree with you 100%! I believe the Chosen is wicked Idolatry, simple as that.
Hello Anne..what false teaching does the chosen have? There are back stories in the TV show…
Without looking at the many citations I’ve gathered I’ll give you one major false teaching. Jesus had to rehearse his sermons and gets advice from the one apostle. That is blasphemy