Comments on: Walkin’ into the Enemy’s Camp, Layin’ our Weapons Down – Part 1 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1 Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:30:58 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Jonathan Miles http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-25433 Jonathan Miles Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:41:34 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/75/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1#comment-25433 Michael, I don't think we have to take "walking in the garden in the cool of the day" as literal or a pre-incarnation. It could just be a figure of speech much like the verses in chapter three when it says, "and their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked" [I'm quoting this from memory but you get the idea] Genesis uses figures of speech like this. So this seems to me a viable interpretation. Michael,
I don’t think we have to take “walking in the garden in the cool of the day” as literal or a pre-incarnation. It could just be a figure of speech much like the verses in chapter three when it says, “and their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked” [I'm quoting this from memory but you get the idea] Genesis uses figures of speech like this. So this seems to me a viable interpretation.

]]> By: Jeanie Franklin http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-19312 Jeanie Franklin Fri, 09 May 2008 21:26:01 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/75/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1#comment-19312 I hope this is relevant to the question i am about to ask. I would like to know what are your thoughts on the Global Day of prayer. Some evangelical churches are paticipating in it here in San Antonio. I see no scriptural reference of this in God's Word unless i missed something. I hear nothing of salvation and the Word isn't preached. I am wary of anything that sounds global. Thank you. I hope this is relevant to the question i am about to ask. I would like to know what are your thoughts on the Global Day of prayer. Some evangelical churches are paticipating in it here in San Antonio. I see no scriptural reference of this in God’s Word unless i missed something. I hear nothing of salvation and the Word isn’t preached. I am wary of anything that sounds global. Thank you.

]]> By: Michael B. http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-15260 Michael B. Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:58:03 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/75/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1#comment-15260 Excellent article, however, I do have a few questions. While it cannot be denied God in His "unity" is indeed spirit and has no body, must it not also be taken literally that God "walked with Adam during the cool of the day" in the garden of Eden? Unless we wish to make this some kind of talking protoplasmic ball of the shekina glory or some metaphorical, allegorical interpretation wherein God was "in Adam's heart" or "the presence of God was with him" (true though these statments would also be) are we not forced to admit that somehow God was striding along with Adam on two legs in fellowship and communion? The best proof I can offer for this is the other pre-incarnate appearances of Christ (theophanies) as we also see seven generations later with Enoch and at various times throughout the OT. Does this not also leads us, therefore, to understand Jesus in his physical body as prexistant throughout all eternity; and further that this body as the possession of Christ was the chosen manifestation of the undivided essence which none can 'see'? Or, to put it another way: God in His essence (undivided triunity) has no body--but in His tri-manifestations (or individual members of the trinity) is seen by man in the being of Christ who's "bodily person" ever was and will be. This might help with the "only begotten" description we see in John in that only Christ was "begotten" by God or "given a permanent physical form". To complain this lowers Christ is only to buy into the Greek-Gnostic idea that all matter is evil or somehow unworthy of God's presence. We do run into issues with temporal mechanics in this theory because obviously Jesus wasn't "born into a body" until the incarnation any more than He was apparently ever without one. Apparently it seems in the eternal view of Christ's body, we can not only say "that which was will always be", but also "that which will be always was". Nevertheless,such statments as these are no more (or less) difficult than "the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world" which echos them. These are indeed great mysteries, prone to aberrations and poor teaching simply because they are beyond our understanding. The difference between the Creator and the Created being is, of course, the infinte verses the finite-- Jakes is clearly off base in saying God is 'one guy with three jobs' (is he Jesus only?)but having said all this one wonders if He (errant though he was) is not telling us something we should consider more carefully before discounting out of hand. It's not as if there is no evidence at all for an extension of "Imageo deo" to include the man's physical form which, as far as we can tell, has been the possession of Christ for all eternity. Excellent article, however, I do have a few questions.

While it cannot be denied God in His “unity” is indeed spirit and has no body, must it not also be taken literally that God “walked with Adam during the cool of the day” in the garden of Eden? Unless we wish to make this some kind of talking protoplasmic ball of the shekina glory or some metaphorical, allegorical interpretation wherein God was “in Adam’s heart” or “the presence of God was with him” (true though these statments would also be) are we not forced to admit that somehow God was striding along with Adam on two legs in fellowship and communion?

The best proof I can offer for this is the other pre-incarnate appearances of Christ (theophanies) as we also see seven generations later with Enoch and at various times throughout the OT. Does this not also leads us, therefore, to understand Jesus in his physical body as prexistant throughout all eternity; and further that this body as the possession of Christ was the chosen manifestation of the undivided essence which none can ‘see’? Or, to put it another way: God in His essence (undivided triunity) has no body–but in His tri-manifestations (or individual members of the trinity) is seen by man in the being of Christ who’s “bodily person” ever was and will be. This might help with the “only begotten” description we see in John in that only Christ was “begotten” by God or “given a permanent physical form”. To complain this lowers Christ is only to buy into the Greek-Gnostic idea that all matter is evil or somehow unworthy of God’s presence.

We do run into issues with temporal mechanics in this theory because obviously Jesus wasn’t “born into a body” until the incarnation any more than He was apparently ever without one. Apparently it seems in the eternal view of Christ’s body, we can not only say “that which was will always be”, but also “that which will be always was”. Nevertheless,such statments as these are no more (or less) difficult than “the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world” which echos them.

These are indeed great mysteries, prone to aberrations and poor teaching simply because they are beyond our understanding. The difference between the Creator and the Created being is, of course, the infinte verses the finite– Jakes is clearly off base in saying God is ‘one guy with three jobs’ (is he Jesus only?)but having said all this one wonders if He (errant though he was) is not telling us something we should consider more carefully before discounting out of hand. It’s not as if there is no evidence at all for an extension of “Imageo deo” to include the man’s physical form which, as far as we can tell, has been the possession of Christ for all eternity.

]]> By: Lynn http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-15168 Lynn Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:36:28 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/75/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1#comment-15168 About John MacArthur's comment on "celebration of ignorance." I'm still not that well read up on what the emerging church is, but there are so many things I don't know. However, thinking about what I don't know is never a cause for celebration. About John MacArthur’s comment on “celebration of ignorance.”

I’m still not that well read up on what the emerging church is, but there are so many things I don’t know. However, thinking about what I don’t know is never a cause for celebration.

]]> By: Glenn E. Chatfield http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-15154 Glenn E. Chatfield Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:33 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/75/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1#comment-15154 What can I say about this article? OUTSTANDING! What can I say about this article? OUTSTANDING!

]]> By: Barb http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-15143 Barb Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:12:34 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/75/walkin%e2%80%99-into-the-enemy%e2%80%99s-camp-layin%e2%80%99-our-weapons-down-part-1#comment-15143 Thank you for writing this. Discernment is on the top of my mind lately, since some new-fangled ideas have infiltrated my own conservative church, brought by a pastor-to-be who is close to graduating from seminary. Just two weeks ago he played a Rob Bell video in which, and I took notes as Rob Bell spoke, Bell said "Jesus is like God." Bell went on to say how, when he thinks of God, "I hear a song" (emotion-based). Bell said it's really hard to "get our heads around God," but that's okay because we can get our mind around goodness and generosity of which Jesus is the "model." According to Bell, we can know generosity, justice and compassion when Jesus is the model; we don't need to access or know God through Jesus Christ, because Jesus as a mentor or model is enough. Shortly after this, I was reading R.C. Sproul who said "We need to get back to caring who God is." But why care about who God is if people are being told God doesn't matter and that we can't "get our heads around God?" John MacArthur has an excellent critique of the Emerging Church when he says it is a "celebration of ignorance, a celebration that we can't really know." These false teachings are all about keeping people in the dark, under the misguided attempt at self-esteem: making people not feel bad. Conviction, repentance and forgiveness is left completely out of the equation, and therefore so is God and the redemption that can only come from and through Him. False teachings are causing little and big alike to stumble, and instead of being loving in nature are actually a form of bondage and slavery. I know that the most loving thing God has done and will continue to do for me is redeem me through His conviction upon me which leads to my repentance and His forgiveness which allows me to then forgive myself. This is what leads to changed lives, confidence in God (not that awful self-esteem in self) and true joy. This is what so many are not experiencing because they are following "teachers" trying to show them a false shortcut to new life and joy. Thank you for writing this. Discernment is on the top of my mind lately, since some new-fangled ideas have infiltrated my own conservative church, brought by a pastor-to-be who is close to graduating from seminary.
Just two weeks ago he played a Rob Bell video in which, and I took notes as Rob Bell spoke, Bell said “Jesus is like God.” Bell went on to say how, when he thinks of God, “I hear a song” (emotion-based). Bell said it’s really hard to “get our heads around God,” but that’s okay because we can get our mind around goodness and generosity of which Jesus is the “model.” According to Bell, we can know generosity, justice and compassion when Jesus is the model; we don’t need to access or know God through Jesus Christ, because Jesus as a mentor or model is enough.
Shortly after this, I was reading R.C. Sproul who said “We need to get back to caring who God is.” But why care about who God is if people are being told God doesn’t matter and that we can’t “get our heads around God?”
John MacArthur has an excellent critique of the Emerging Church when he says it is a “celebration of ignorance, a celebration that we can’t really know.”
These false teachings are all about keeping people in the dark, under the misguided attempt at self-esteem: making people not feel bad. Conviction, repentance and forgiveness is left completely out of the equation, and therefore so is God and the redemption that can only come from and through Him. False teachings are causing little and big alike to stumble, and instead of being loving in nature are actually a form of bondage and slavery. I know that the most loving thing God has done and will continue to do for me is redeem me through His conviction upon me which leads to my repentance and His forgiveness which allows me to then forgive myself. This is what leads to changed lives, confidence in God (not that awful self-esteem in self) and true joy. This is what so many are not experiencing because they are following “teachers” trying to show them a false shortcut to new life and joy.

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