Comments on: Pharisees, Sadducees and the Emerging Church http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:30:58 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Charles Martin Cosgriff http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-25480 Charles Martin Cosgriff Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:32:04 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/113/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church#comment-25480 As a practicing Catholic, I have to say that I have qualms about much in this article. But as to the points on which I agree, the salient one is that we must be very blunt about what we, you and I, believe. To add on to what Pastor Veinot says, either we have to confess our sins to a Priest or we do not; either the Eucahrist is the Body of Christ or it is not. We get nowhere believing that the differences don't matter, particlularly if our job is to save souls (which is the job of any true Church and, at least in my case, Vatican II notwithstanding). An amorpous god of love (lower case used intentionally here) gets us no closer to God, and such shallow sentiments ought to be avoided. He is Love, of course, but righteous and true love, which understands all people, places, and times fully, and wants us to share in that comprehension. That said, we must instruct our brethen in the spirit of Christian Charity, as the Pastor allows. So long as we do that, we can have useful dialogue even on the serious differences. We amy even convert a few lost souls. As a practicing Catholic, I have to say that I have qualms about much in this article. But as to the points on which I agree, the salient one is that we must be very blunt about what we, you and I, believe. To add on to what Pastor Veinot says, either we have to confess our sins to a Priest or we do not; either the Eucahrist is the Body of Christ or it is not. We get nowhere believing that the differences don’t matter, particlularly if our job is to save souls (which is the job of any true Church and, at least in my case, Vatican II notwithstanding). An amorpous god of love (lower case used intentionally here) gets us no closer to God, and such shallow sentiments ought to be avoided. He is Love, of course, but righteous and true love, which understands all people, places, and times fully, and wants us to share in that comprehension.

That said, we must instruct our brethen in the spirit of Christian Charity, as the Pastor allows. So long as we do that, we can have useful dialogue even on the serious differences. We amy even convert a few lost souls.

]]> By: Dennis http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-25430 Dennis Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:31:45 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/113/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church#comment-25430 The sad thing about Rick Warren and the Emerging Church movement is that so many people are so easily led into these errors. I'm not a Bible scholar, just an average Christian, but I can see through this silliness. Why is it that so many others are incapable of doing the same? And more importantly, how do these errors get started? Does it start with the seminaries? Does it start with pastors/leaders who are unregenerate and led by Satan? How can this be combatted? I think we need to stay informed and address the Emergent movement when we see it, especially in our local church. I grew up in the Roman Catholic faith. I went to RC elementary and high school. One thing that has stuck with me is a statue that was in the elementary school (I bet it is still there). It was a statue of Mary and she had her foot on a serpent's head. Now, what picture does that paint? The sad thing about Rick Warren and the Emerging Church movement is that so many people are so easily led into these errors. I’m not a Bible scholar, just an average Christian, but I can see through this silliness. Why is it that so many others are incapable of doing the same? And more importantly, how do these errors get started? Does it start with the seminaries? Does it start with pastors/leaders who are unregenerate and led by Satan? How can this be combatted? I think we need to stay informed and address the Emergent movement when we see it, especially in our local church.

I grew up in the Roman Catholic faith. I went to RC elementary and high school. One thing that has stuck with me is a statue that was in the elementary school (I bet it is still there). It was a statue of Mary and she had her foot on a serpent’s head. Now, what picture does that paint?

]]> By: E. Stephen Burnett http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-25428 E. Stephen Burnett Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:20:51 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/113/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church#comment-25428 In many ways, I don't care what contemporary culture thinks, either. To be sure, some Christians zealously overcorrect the sexual excesses of the culture to the point where we could rightfully be perceived as prudes or even disgusted by intimate "knowledge" -- in the KJV-Bible sense -- within marriage. But just because "the world" gets mad at all Christians for upholding and advocating these standards, doesn't mean true Christendom has anything for which to apologize. I do think that if Christ-followers would talk (prudently yet exuberantly) about the joys of such "knowledge," that could seem more appealing to some in the world -- but mostly those Christians struggling with sexual temptation. I just don't see a lot of that positive hey-why-settle-for-less? message. (The problem with people is that "we are far too easily pleased" by sin's temporary pleasures, as Lewis wrote.) It's the same thing with the New Heavens and New Earth: very few in Christendom talk about the hope and rewards and fantastic worlds that await us. Instead, we get your-best-life-now, a now-now-now focus, a do-this-do-that-just-<i>because</i> focus. But we shouldn't change any of this just to win fallible friends and influence sinful people. We should instead focus on the wonders of God's better ways (without neglecting the bad parts, to be sure) because it is <i>God</i> Who has first done so in Scripture. One last tangential note: as for humans' classification -- we are neither mammals (as evolutionists would say) nor amphimbians (as Screwtape would say). We're human beings, with <i>nephesh chayya</i> life, the breath of God, and living souls. In many ways, I don’t care what contemporary culture thinks, either. To be sure, some Christians zealously overcorrect the sexual excesses of the culture to the point where we could rightfully be perceived as prudes or even disgusted by intimate “knowledge” — in the KJV-Bible sense — within marriage. But just because “the world” gets mad at all Christians for upholding and advocating these standards, doesn’t mean true Christendom has anything for which to apologize.

I do think that if Christ-followers would talk (prudently yet exuberantly) about the joys of such “knowledge,” that could seem more appealing to some in the world — but mostly those Christians struggling with sexual temptation. I just don’t see a lot of that positive hey-why-settle-for-less? message. (The problem with people is that “we are far too easily pleased” by sin’s temporary pleasures, as Lewis wrote.) It’s the same thing with the New Heavens and New Earth: very few in Christendom talk about the hope and rewards and fantastic worlds that await us. Instead, we get your-best-life-now, a now-now-now focus, a do-this-do-that-just-because focus.

But we shouldn’t change any of this just to win fallible friends and influence sinful people. We should instead focus on the wonders of God’s better ways (without neglecting the bad parts, to be sure) because it is God Who has first done so in Scripture.

One last tangential note: as for humans’ classification — we are neither mammals (as evolutionists would say) nor amphimbians (as Screwtape would say). We’re human beings, with nephesh chayya life, the breath of God, and living souls.

]]> By: Dennis http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-25392 Dennis Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:12:07 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/113/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church#comment-25392 First, Screwtape is wrong. We are mammals. Frogs are amphibians. Second, Christianity is not "hung up" on sexuality. God said homosexuality is wrong. We are using God's Word as our basis for living. Third, what is "soulcraft"? Fourth, if you think actions, especially those dealing with sex, can't hurt anyone you're not dealing with reality. Fifth, I don't care what the rest of the world or contemporary culture thinks of us. I care what God thinks of me and my fellow Christians. Sixth, I don't think Christians are irrationally prudish or sexual killjoys. I rather enjoy the love-life my wife and I enjoy. Perhaps compared to debauched sex-life of others we might be considered prudes but quite honestly I would wear that as a badge of honor! First, Screwtape is wrong. We are mammals. Frogs are amphibians. Second, Christianity is not “hung up” on sexuality. God said homosexuality is wrong. We are using God’s Word as our basis for living. Third, what is “soulcraft”? Fourth, if you think actions, especially those dealing with sex, can’t hurt anyone you’re not dealing with reality. Fifth, I don’t care what the rest of the world or contemporary culture thinks of us. I care what God thinks of me and my fellow Christians. Sixth, I don’t think Christians are irrationally prudish or sexual killjoys. I rather enjoy the love-life my wife and I enjoy. Perhaps compared to debauched sex-life of others we might be considered prudes but quite honestly I would wear that as a badge of honor!

]]> By: Jonathan Miles http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-25389 Jonathan Miles Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:37:32 +0000 http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/113/pharisees-sadducees-and-the-emerging-church#comment-25389 Why is it that Christianity seems so "hung up" on sexuality? Maybe Screwtape had it right: "You must always remember Wormwood, they are amphibians [soul and body] and what they do with their bodies affects their souls." Why is our preoccupation with soulcraft and therefore sex so offensive to the rest of the world? Because our preoccupation with sex violates the harm principle which says, "The only morally relevant factor to one's actions is whether or not it harms others either physically or emotionally." Sex usually doesn't "harm" others noticeably either physically or emotionally (on this last part, ever notice how there is this concerted effort to show playboy bunnies as perfectly happy and prostitutes as well?) If this is right, then our preoccupation with sex starts to look like some freudian nerousis. I'm really not sure how to combat this problem. Its just my observation of why contemporary culture thinks we are irrationally prudish and sexual killjoys. Why is it that Christianity seems so “hung up” on sexuality? Maybe Screwtape had it right: “You must always remember Wormwood, they are amphibians [soul and body] and what they do with their bodies affects their souls.”

Why is our preoccupation with soulcraft and therefore sex so offensive to the rest of the world? Because our preoccupation with sex violates the harm principle which says, “The only morally relevant factor to one’s actions is whether or not it harms others either physically or emotionally.” Sex usually doesn’t “harm” others noticeably either physically or emotionally (on this last part, ever notice how there is this concerted effort to show playboy bunnies as perfectly happy and prostitutes as well?)
If this is right, then our preoccupation with sex starts to look like some freudian nerousis. I’m really not sure how to combat this problem. Its just my observation of why contemporary culture thinks we are irrationally prudish and sexual killjoys.

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