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	<title>Comments on: Honor Thy Fathers</title>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Price</title>
		<link>http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/honor-thy-fathers/comment-page-1#comment-8506</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/?p=44#comment-8506</guid>
		<description>As a current Dallas Theological Seminary student (legacy of Dr. Chafer), I am pleased to report that not only have I taken History of Doctrine at DTS - in which we reviewed the church councils and early church fathers - but also two classes on church history in which the emphasis is on how church doctrine and the church ultimately shape the human experience. DTS&#039; Dr. Hannah and Dr. Bingham are known for their passion that the student who is unaware of their doctrinal history is bound to repeat the same doctrinal/heretical mistakes. 
A particular class with Dr. Bingham is memorable for the discussion about the Second Great Awakening and the lack of a theological &quot;heavyweight&quot; to counteract the heretical tendencies of Charles Finney and other &quot;charismatic&quot; leaders whose knowledge of soteriology and pneumatology was sorely lacking - the consequences of which are visible today on TBN and Daystar television for all to see....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a current Dallas Theological Seminary student (legacy of Dr. Chafer), I am pleased to report that not only have I taken History of Doctrine at DTS &#8211; in which we reviewed the church councils and early church fathers &#8211; but also two classes on church history in which the emphasis is on how church doctrine and the church ultimately shape the human experience. DTS&#8217; Dr. Hannah and Dr. Bingham are known for their passion that the student who is unaware of their doctrinal history is bound to repeat the same doctrinal/heretical mistakes.<br />
A particular class with Dr. Bingham is memorable for the discussion about the Second Great Awakening and the lack of a theological &#8220;heavyweight&#8221; to counteract the heretical tendencies of Charles Finney and other &#8220;charismatic&#8221; leaders whose knowledge of soteriology and pneumatology was sorely lacking &#8211; the consequences of which are visible today on TBN and Daystar television for all to see&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: ReformedCatholicism.com &#187; Answering A Critic of Part I of &#8220;Honor Your Fathers&#8230;&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/honor-thy-fathers/comment-page-1#comment-8415</link>
		<dc:creator>ReformedCatholicism.com &#187; Answering A Critic of Part I of &#8220;Honor Your Fathers&#8230;&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 00:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/?p=44#comment-8415</guid>
		<description>[...] By far the most eloquent protest came from a man named Ron Henzel, who had the following to say about my post as it appeared on Reformed Catholicism:  How ironic that the day after I uploaded a post to the Midwest Christian Outreach, Inc. blog titled “Honor Thy Fathers” that this blog should feature a post with a similar title. It’s also somewhat ironic that my post is about honoring the church fathers by reading them, while this one is about honoring the pope (Italian: “papa”), although it leaves us in suspense to imagine precisely how, pending future posts. Ironic, yes, and tragically so, for here the similarities between the two posts end as Tim Enloe presents us with Dali-esque, carnival mirror reflections of Scripture and church history. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] By far the most eloquent protest came from a man named Ron Henzel, who had the following to say about my post as it appeared on Reformed Catholicism:  How ironic that the day after I uploaded a post to the Midwest Christian Outreach, Inc. blog titled “Honor Thy Fathers” that this blog should feature a post with a similar title. It’s also somewhat ironic that my post is about honoring the church fathers by reading them, while this one is about honoring the pope (Italian: “papa”), although it leaves us in suspense to imagine precisely how, pending future posts. Ironic, yes, and tragically so, for here the similarities between the two posts end as Tim Enloe presents us with Dali-esque, carnival mirror reflections of Scripture and church history. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/honor-thy-fathers/comment-page-1#comment-8268</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/?p=44#comment-8268</guid>
		<description>I, too, appreciate the broadening of perspective.  More and more I&#039;m struggling with separating Christianity from current evangelical (and American) culture.  So many of our (American evangelical Christian) attitudes and beliefs simply don&#039;t follow from the Bible.  Realizing this is both liberating and disturbing at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, appreciate the broadening of perspective.  More and more I&#8217;m struggling with separating Christianity from current evangelical (and American) culture.  So many of our (American evangelical Christian) attitudes and beliefs simply don&#8217;t follow from the Bible.  Realizing this is both liberating and disturbing at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Under Much Grace</title>
		<link>http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/honor-thy-fathers/comment-page-1#comment-8267</link>
		<dc:creator>Under Much Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/?p=44#comment-8267</guid>
		<description>Ron Henzel,

This is both disturbingly sad and hysterical at the same time!  I was just blogging with someone a few hours ago with &lt;a href=&quot;http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2007/07/20/doug-phillips-twists-scripture-to-fit-jamestown-agenda/#comment-8978&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this subject&lt;/a&gt; as an explanation for a fideistic doctrine that he apparently knew nothing about.  I share the experience (and some of the colorful coloquial comments) of wondering why we have to read all of these &quot;DMG&quot;s.  While a young adult living at home with my parents, I&#039;ve been called a heretic for simply reading Calvin, and books that have been deemed dangerous have disappeared and replaced with Ken Hagin &quot;books.&quot;  (Cringe and shudder.)  I&#039;ve also been accused of straying from the true faith because of my faithless love for knowledge and intelligent people.  Supposedly, I&#039;ve sold out.

Sadly, I&#039;ve heard Assemblies of God ministers make the same comments as Dave Hunt does in your quote above.  I&#039;ve been told by Sunday School teachers that Martin Luther was not Christian, that the &quot;true Christian church&quot; never shared any history with Catholicism, etc.  The only notable church history skips from the New Testament to 1890.  Depending on the group, they may go all the way back to the Declaration of Independence or some such other event in American colonial history as a holy time.

So I am ever grateful to those mysterious few in my history and development who have always been there to make comments that most people never recognized, suggesting that the dilemmas of our lives and within our churches had been faced by others in the history of our faith.  In contrast to the FEAR induced by the idea of reading the words of fallible men, these few others encouraged me to look to the past with confidence in Christ, expecting to find human examples of people very much like me.  I am grateful for you and these few others who gave me this insight which ultimately lead me into truth, liberating me from several cultic mindsets.  Keep fighting this good fight and pray that God continues to open the hearts and minds of those of us who were raised in fear of anything outside of the binder of the KJV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Henzel,</p>
<p>This is both disturbingly sad and hysterical at the same time!  I was just blogging with someone a few hours ago with <a href="http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2007/07/20/doug-phillips-twists-scripture-to-fit-jamestown-agenda/#comment-8978" rel="nofollow">this subject</a> as an explanation for a fideistic doctrine that he apparently knew nothing about.  I share the experience (and some of the colorful coloquial comments) of wondering why we have to read all of these &#8220;DMG&#8221;s.  While a young adult living at home with my parents, I&#8217;ve been called a heretic for simply reading Calvin, and books that have been deemed dangerous have disappeared and replaced with Ken Hagin &#8220;books.&#8221;  (Cringe and shudder.)  I&#8217;ve also been accused of straying from the true faith because of my faithless love for knowledge and intelligent people.  Supposedly, I&#8217;ve sold out.</p>
<p>Sadly, I&#8217;ve heard Assemblies of God ministers make the same comments as Dave Hunt does in your quote above.  I&#8217;ve been told by Sunday School teachers that Martin Luther was not Christian, that the &#8220;true Christian church&#8221; never shared any history with Catholicism, etc.  The only notable church history skips from the New Testament to 1890.  Depending on the group, they may go all the way back to the Declaration of Independence or some such other event in American colonial history as a holy time.</p>
<p>So I am ever grateful to those mysterious few in my history and development who have always been there to make comments that most people never recognized, suggesting that the dilemmas of our lives and within our churches had been faced by others in the history of our faith.  In contrast to the FEAR induced by the idea of reading the words of fallible men, these few others encouraged me to look to the past with confidence in Christ, expecting to find human examples of people very much like me.  I am grateful for you and these few others who gave me this insight which ultimately lead me into truth, liberating me from several cultic mindsets.  Keep fighting this good fight and pray that God continues to open the hearts and minds of those of us who were raised in fear of anything outside of the binder of the KJV.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/honor-thy-fathers/comment-page-1#comment-8266</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/?p=44#comment-8266</guid>
		<description>What has surprised me for some time is reading quotes like the above from Augustine, and having a little understanding of how Roman Catholicism departed from such views (inerrancy and authority of Scripture alone - what you brought up, but also total depravity, I believe), that the RC Church still has such high regard for Augustine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What has surprised me for some time is reading quotes like the above from Augustine, and having a little understanding of how Roman Catholicism departed from such views (inerrancy and authority of Scripture alone &#8211; what you brought up, but also total depravity, I believe), that the RC Church still has such high regard for Augustine.</p>
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