If you would like to go public with what happened to you and document your case, that’s exactly what my blog is for, discussions on church discipline. You can email me at cd.host@gmail.com. I’ve been doing VF related discipline cases and problems with their theology.

While we worry for the Church and the direction such misapplication of doctrine by Phillips and his followers documentably are causing and will cause, let us not forget that the character of the man who speaks is still important. Let us not adopt the worlds standard that character and personal morals are not important. If we believe character matters in a President of the United States, the scripture is all the more certain in it’s call for the Church to judge itself, character must exhibit itself.

We can focus on and expose Phillips aberant application of biblical teaching, but we should not do so to the exclusion of examination of his character as it pertains to his public morality.For a man’s character most certainly is the greatest witness to the mans closely held doctrines.

Aberant doctrines and their application do not emanate from faith, hope and charity nor from the keeping of the two great commandments Jesus gave us. On the other hand, twisted doctrine and application have their origins in trespass, the breaking of the laws of God.
To the point, Doug Phillips produced a film and profited from its sale and distribution based on someone elses work. His theft of that credit for the work materially harmed individuals. He even used his legalese to badger and cajole and stall and starve out his victims. While he continues to profit on the foundation built so treacherously, he leaves a wreck of those he robbed. We cite Phillips not as a man who crossed to the other side of the road to avoid assistence to a fellow traveler, indeed Phillips in this case is the man guilty of the assault and robbery.
In all this Mr Phillips has broken the Ten Commandments unabashedly and continues in the booty of his stolen goods(Thou shalt not steal) and the worldly glory of his falsley born witness(Thou shalt not bear false witness).
His first film Raising the Allosaur was made to show his intimate connection with the discovery and excavation of a dinosaur. The truth was he had contracted with Creation Studies Institute for a tour to the already excavated Allosaur Site. The unseemly behind the scenes activities and lies Phillips engaged in to become leader of the ‘dicoverers and excavators’ are both engrossing and disheartening. Unlike a half hour TV show where justice is accomplished by the end of the 30 minutes, several years have been insufficient for Phillips to either repent or make things right with those he has robbed and born false witness against. Scott Brown a board member does say that ‘Doug confessed to making serious mistakes based on Pete DeRosas deceptions’. However what the board was not aware of were any details. Phillips using his legal background led a quasi-legal battle thru threats intimidation and spiritual blackmail against his victims.
The majority of the problem seems to be that like Gregory, no one wants to say the truth about Mr Phillips and his evil deeds. He has his family spread about him in photo-ops just as a politician before the cameras or a criminal before the sentencing judge displays his family..
Until Mr Phillips tells the truth publicly to the audience to whom he promoted and sold his film Raising the Allosaur, those of us who have taken the time to know the truth are not impressed by his platitudes and stolen words and even less by those that prop him up in his transgression. It would be autocratic to suspect Ken Ham of being cut from the same cloth just because he accepted the ‘George Washington’ award from Phillips, so we won’t, however it does make us wonder since Ken always refused to sell Phillips film. Ken’s promotion of Phillips is perplexing in that Ken’s intimate knowledge of the allosaur story only leaves one conclusion about Phillips and his film.
Phillips uses the film as his credential for a film festival he started. He even made up his own ten commandments for his film festival. it is no surprize that Phillips breaks his own commandments too.

It is egalitarian teachings that are becoming the norm by which all other teachings are judged as true or false, abusive or not.

I think that you are still out of touch with where the church really is, since you continue to avoid the subject of egalitarian feminism and its neo-Gnosticism.

Even if everything stated by the people posting here is accurate, I observe many incidents of ungodly gossiping taking place here. Many of you need to repent, especially where you are only speculating.

After reading these posts, I am wondering if I am on a Christian website. Is this just a place for disgruntled people to congregate?

This situation with Scott Brown is interesting in light of Don’s question to Brian Abshire:

“2) Since you have raised this issue another question surfaces. Is it your position that the local church the highest authority in matters of excommunication?”

I don’t recall that Abshire answered this one, but it appears on the face of it, at this time, that Doug Phillips would have to say “no” to this question.

I mean, if he doesn’t think anything of this particular church issuing a warning about Scott Brown and openly stating that he is not repentant of specific, named sins, then Doug Phillips thinks the local church CAN be fluffed off in matters of public rebuke, and warning, at least. Excommunication should fall into the same circle as what was said about Scott Brown, too.

If the Scott Brown situation is true, and if you agree that what was stated about Brown and excommunication are in the same class, then there are two choices here:

Doug Phillips decides HIMSELF who *should* be under church discipline and which discipline should be *ignored*,

or,

Doug is going by the BIBLE, which is the evangelical Protestant’s source of authority in this matter, and he understands from the facts of a given case which is a true discipline, and which is a false discipline, based on clear teaching of Scripture.

If it is the latter case (which I seriously doubt) it would be VERY interesting to know why Doug thinks his excommunication of the Epstein family should be iron-clad truth that is never questioned, and is not something he has to answer for, ever, and why he thinks what this other church did to Scott Brown is unbiblical, and something he can ignore.

Well, I’m engaging in fantastic musings and speculation here, and I’d better stop.

Just wanted to note the disparity over how these two cases of church discipline are being treated by Vision Forum is glaring, and appears very inconsistent at this time.

Why is it that Doug Phillips rails against Christians who behave, according to him, in an unBrotherly manner. His own (or rather NCFIC’s own) Voddie Baucham has said, as reported by Scott Brown (the poster, David Brown, is Scott’s son who handles his dad’s blog for him),

http://scottbrownonline.blogspot.com/2005_09_01_archive.html#112796318266619183

SEPTEMBER 28, 2005
Voddie Baucham – Apologist for Biblical Order in Church and Home

Houston Uniting Church and Family Conference

Great Voddie Baucham Quotes from the Houston Conference:

“Modern youth ministry is grossly unbiblical and a detrement to the strength of the family. Since 1970 the number of youth pastors has grown exponentially, while the number of youth baptisms has declined. Modern youth ministry does a pathetic job. It simply does not work.”

“The immodesty in these youth ministries is rampant. I took my family to Disney world and saw so much flesh we thought we were at a church youth camp.”

“Our public schools are anti Christian by Federal mandate.’

POSTED BY DAVID BROWN AT WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 2005

Why is it that Vision Forum ministries gets away with the very things that Doug (and, indeed Scott Brown – just see his sermon archives at Hope Baptist Church) does? Is it not the height of unBrotherly-ness to make jeering comments like that? Not to mention, where are the hard numbers to back up those statements?

And again, in this next entry, Scott calls CCC “on the carpet” for the error of egalitarianism. It doesn’t mention that he called them up to discuss the charge, first. And if he views it as an error, why doesn’t he follow the Matthew 18 process with its leadership? (It is obviously offending him!) This is something they have demanded for themselves in the past!

SEPTEMBER 25, 2005
Campus Crusade Rejects Creation Order Roles

Campus Crusade For Christ, perhaps the largest evangelical parachurch organization in the world, has issued a new statement of ministry practices that is thoroughly egalitarian. They have followed in the footsteps of Inter Varsity Christian Fellowship and YWAM by rejecting gender role distinctions and restrictions. This is a direct rejection of clear biblical statements that describe the gender role distinctions in the creation order mandates.

Here are the key statements from the document:

“Practices

1. An organizational leadership structure, based upon men and women leading together, is the norm at the local level.

2. It is normative for both men and women to express their spiritual gifts in teaching the Bible within mixed gender contexts.

3. Men and women hold positions of organizational leadership over both men and women.

This is in complete opposition to biblical teaching.

1 Timothy 2:12, Let a woman learn in silence. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.

I Corinthians 14:34, Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Now, if you go to an American university, you not only get an education that is anti-christian by federal mandate, but you also get flagship christian ministries rejecting biblical roles by the mandate of their leaders. Rejecting a word of scripture anywhere from Genesis to Revelation, is rejecting a word of Christ. I pray for a Campus Crusade for Christ.

POSTED BY DAVID BROWN AT SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2005

These are pretty strong accusations! And yet, we do not read that Scott tried to bring these brothers back to the truth of Scripture – he’s merely content to assassinate them from the comfort of his own living room.

We are baffled that Doug’s and Scott’s followers do not see this hypocrisy. Do they really believe that the ends (church/believers operating/living according to how they interpret Scripture) justify the means – any means?